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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
Ok, so I bought a 1959 Venezuela medal that was minted in Germany for the bank of Venezuela as part of their 1957-59 "Chiefs in the Second War" series, which consist about 18 war leaders on both sides... Churchill, Stalin, etc. Mine is that of Adolf Hitler, the worse tyrant in the last century. It is of my opinion that he got such a deserved bad rap because Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others merely slaughtered millions of people in their own country, plus Hitler started the war. To say he was a tyrant is an understatement, believe me I am NO FAN of him. That aside, I cannot identify this coin. I have tried numerous sources, websites (including this one), mints, NGC, literally dozens of places... and I still cannot get it identified. One funny thing about it is that it has the same width as a 60 bolivares (30mm) but instead of weighing in at 22 grams as the 60 bolivares does normally, mine weighs in at 11.7 grams. Another weird thing is that the area on the coin where the gram weight should be engraved is totally blank... just a big wide spot where the gram weight should be engraved. In my frustrating attempts to identify this coin, I have come across MANY ommissions, mistakes, errors, contradictions, etc. in coin websites, Krause, seller websites and even auction houses which contradict themselves... on the same page of their own listing. I have about a dozen of examples of this which I will spare you for now. I spent about 4 weeks trying to identify this coin and have given up. My last hope was the mint itself but it appears not be in operation any more. well, enough talk... err, writing. here it is...    The gram weight should be in the space just under the eagle's furthest left tail feather (our view), just to the right of the "GR." and right above the "Z" in "VENEZUELA" at the bottom of the medal. I have had the medal analyzed by the latest equipment and it tests as 22.22 carot... it is no fake. So, again, my question is this... do I have a medal worth roughly about 3-4 hundred dollars in melt weight because it cannot be identified anywhere, or do I have something else? As already mentioned, I cannot identify this coin from any source. One old-timer collector wrote me he had never seen anything like this before (missing gram weight, etc.) Any opinions would be appreciated, feel free to be way off base... your opinion would be better than other sources I have researched, believe me. thanks... mike *** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. *** |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
It's a medal not a coin. I'll help you look.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
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Valued Member
 United States
379 Posts |
One thing... In the 2007 Krause Standard Catalog of Modern World Gold Coins (yes, coins, sellers of the "verified" variations of these series of medals all list them as coins), Krause numbers of X# MB2 to
X# MB60, 20 to 160 bolivares (pages 749-750). They is not listed in the 2018 Krause at all (problably because Krause stopped considering them as "coins". Also, even in the 2007 catalog, it does not even mention that they were made also in in 1958 (they were and I have verified pictorial proof), just the years 1957 and 1959. For 1959, Krause only mentions the proof 160 bolivares, at least in my catalog.
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
Thanks TNG, I have already seen those. Notice how on the tax free gold site how they contradict another coin website and correct contradictions on the same page, on your second link there is an error there also, in that this series was not made in 1960. I did say it was a medal in my first sentence but slipped to saying coin later, which is common. there are several variations of this medal on ebay, they all list them as coins, a common mistake with this series. But I do appreciate the reply! mike Edited by 4504
03/04/2018 10:11 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
That second link I posted mentions the controversial coin vs medal designation. It also addresses two different sizes and that there might be 18 in a set rather than 14. My guess is, if yours is 30.25 inches in diameter it would have at least a value of just under a half oz of gold. That is unless you asked more and somebody would pay what you asked. Which would probably work out. Often times, something is worth what somebody will pay for it. Kinda neat item you have there.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
Watch this auction 222729685619It's maybe from the same set. I like IKE but not that much. LOL Some collect the Hitler stuff. Couldn't find any sold items. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
btw TNG, what is the signature line for? I already did my stint in the army and navy... I am not signing anything unless I know what it is for. But seriously, it is 11.7 grams, which is fairly close to your estimate of being just under a half an ounce of gold. I also appreciate and agree that a coin or medal in this case is worth what the buyer considers it to be. I guess my real question is that if a coin or medal cannot be identified, is it worth only melt value, or as you mention whatever it is worth to a buyer? I would hate to sell this for a measly 400-600 bucks and find it later on Bowers going for $40,000 as the most exclusive and elusive Hitler medal of all time... fat chance on that tho. thanks for the reply tho, and thanks for the ebay listings, I saw them and your other references long ago, but I appreciate the effort in any case. if anybody else has something to say, I would really like to hear it... mike Edited by 4504
03/04/2018 10:24 pm
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
I'm sorry I can't be of any help, but I love world coins, medals etc. I feel your frustration as I have spent many of hours trying to find the origins of a lot of coins. Thanks for posting it! I'm sure the experts here with know, and it will give me more information on medals I was unaware of. Good luck. Karen
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
Okay, looking at that auction I can see why I know nothing about these! Way beyond my pay grade!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
Quote:
btw TNG, what is the signature line for? I already did my stint in the army and navy... I am not signing anything unless I know what it is for. Anyone can add a personal "signature" line that will appear at the bottom of the members post and it can be changed in the members profile under tools. I have a dry sense of humor and thought I should make a "signature line" that is a signature line. Should I change it, I'll post what you are talking about here because it won't make sense later on. Signature:
Sign Here X ____________________________
I think a good indication of the value is what others are selling for and the TOJO and IKE are not selling like hotcakes at those prices. Watch the listings, maybe they will get reduced to the point where they finally sell. Until they sell, we can assume, there is no demand or they are over-priced. Yours being Hitler, puts a whole different twist on it for Hitler collectors ... ( and they are out there ) Still, I, not being an authority on the medal can't say for sure. The breast feathers bother me a little as they appear rubbed or weakly struck. Yet the rest look pretty sharp with some light rubs on the frosted areas. If this were mine, and I were to sell it, I can say for myself, I would not expect it to do better than the IKE and TOJO prices at 1,450.00 and $1600.00. No way ( and that's just me ) But my old man always said, "There's a lid for every pot!" meaning something like there's a buyer for every coin. In the Antique business, we used to say, "Everything sells ... eventually" and it does. Edited by TNG
03/04/2018 10:47 pm
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
It's true Mike, something is only worth what one is willing to pay. I do get your point though. Ever thought of an auction house to evaluate? New discovery coins can go crazy in auctions! I finally found a small coin shop owner who knows his world coins, medals etc. If I see tomorrow you don't have an answer I may go show him your pics. Another excuse to go dig through his "junk" silver!
Karen
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
Just for trivia information, Hitler did not allow any metals or coins in his likeness during 1939 to 1945. He would not allow it because he did not want any of him made until he won the war! He was a bit optimistic on that in my opinion. But things loosened up later... some German war leaders and their subordinates received life sentences but usually were released within a few years. Stalin now, he was a different story... he kept the German POW folk for about 10 years or so and only about 10% of them came back alive. Hess, however, was made an example of even tho he stole a plane and parachuted over England during the early war years to try to make peace and the US kept him for the rest of his life in a prison that had no other prisoners during his last years alive. A few of them escaped to South America via the ratline to countries like Venezuela (who at one time boasted that they had the fewest German war criminals in comparison to all of the other countries in South America! This was a real feather in their cap in their opinion. And thanks Gizmo for your replies.
Edited by 4504
03/04/2018 10:58 pm
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
I've read Hitler believed that to have your image on coins was bad karma, he was quite into the occult that way.
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Replies: 34 / Views: 8,144 |
Posted 03/04/2018 9:56 pm
