Is It True That A Coin That Cannot Be Identified Is Worth Only Melt Value?

have you tried contacting the bank in Venezuela? Maybe a museum? Just some thoughts.
John1

Today the spot is $1320.60 and 1 gram of pure gold is worth $42.45.
42.45 x 20 = $849.00
Then a dealer may take 15% off for melt value.
The price for the gold the TOJO contains if it weighs 22.2 grams is
$721.65

You say your medal weighs 11.7 grams and it is tested and is .900 fine.
Your 11.7 grams comes out to be $496.66
Then a dealer will take 15% off that which they call
"melt value" or "refining fee" and offer
$422.17

The intrinsic value vs numismatic value is the question.
The only way to find out the numismatic value is to take the TOJO approach yourself. Start a true auction with a high starting bid. If it gets no bids, you'll have to go lower but not to the point where it nets you less that what your bullion buyer will pay. Simple as that I suppose.

Another thing, you have to ask yourself is if you were to see this for auction and you wanted it.
Just how much are you willing to pay? There is another person out there somewhere that might just pay a little more. Or better yet, two that might just fight over it.

You could send it to a TPG and let them figure it out too. That might be your best bet.

Thanks for the replies.

In 1958, the mint partially changed their design, in that in 1957 the gram weights are engraved in several areas and had the dates 1939-1945 stacked up on top of each other on the right side of the medal, such as in the ebay listings and listed below, but the 1958 example, while keeping the gram weights in several areas but the dates are now on opposite sides of the medal. The 1959 examples listed the gram weight in only one area as I had pictured, but also put the years on opposite sides of the medal.

Krause does identify the 90 bolivares as a proof, but fails to mention the other gram weight/values of the other same-series medals of 1959, of which I also have examples of. below is one of a 1958 which may clear up the differences between the 1957 issues and the 1958-1959 examples that I mention.

believe me, I have researched the heck out of this coin, and if I were to list all the confusion and discrepancies it would take a while. If you ask, I will both mention and picture them as well. Also, in 1959, the mint minted them as proofs while the 1957 ebay examples already pictured here were m.s. strikes. see below.

Here are the actual metal contents and gram weight of my medal...

coin weight... 11.7 grams
carot... 22.22

OBV - REV
AU - 92.58 - 92.80
AG - 6.08 - 5.97
CU - 1.34 - 1.23

I cannot see the logic on faking a coin in 22K solid gold. The main area of confusion, at least in this part of the series is identifying my specific medal in that it is 11.7 grams. a 20 bolivares medal weighs 6.0000 grams according to Krause. a 60 bolivares medal weighs 22.2000 grams according to Krause (altho some places dispute that). This is not to say that Krause themselves did not possibly made errors in gram weights and other details. I am kinda leaning towards the theory that mine may be a 40 bolivares or in that area, as all of the bolivares medal values are incomplete as far as published information about them goes.

Krause also left out the 1958 bolivares medals, among others. Below is an image of that one.

confused yet? in 1958 and 1959, as you can see that while the dates are now on opposite sides of the coin, the mint left the multiple gram weights in the same areas for the 1957-1958 mints. However, you can see in the NGC 1959 a 90 bolivares example and the bottom picture 1959 bolivares medal from the tax free gold website where the gram weight is now as where it should be on my medal, as I have already described.

To have even more fun, in 1957 the mint not only put the gram weight of 30 and purity of next to the left wing (our view), at the same time they mention the gram weight as 27 grams in two border areas. Not so in the 1958 (gram weight engraved in two places along the rim with the dates in different places compared to a 1957) and the 1959 ones, which lists the gram weight in only once place.

You can see by the 1959 NGC 90 bolivares example that it is exactly like my 1959, with the exception of the missing and difference in gram weight (30 grams in the NGC vs. the missing 11.7 grams in mine) in the blank area next to the GR. in mine, as I have mentioned already in the location which you can see for yourself in the NGC image.

In other words, the NGC example is of a different gram weight and bolivares value than mine, which is normal because they are of two different values and weights. what is not normal is mine does not list the gram weight in the place where it should be.


The MAIN issue, for me, is that it boils down to specifically identifying a 1959 hitler 11.7 gram medal in the "chiefs in the second war" series.

Thanks for the replies in any case. John, I will certainly , try the bank. I tried looking up the mint, no luck.

Spruett001, it is my personal belief or conclusion that I think you are on the right track, in that that this medal was a either a test piece, or maybe an experimental one-off medal, possibly a prototype, possible limited or specimen strike, etc. It is almost certainly an error medal in that mine has the gram weight omitted, as in the tax free gold image shown earlier in this thread and the NGC image below demonstrates. But I am open to other suggestions, any suggestions, to a difference in opinion to that or in any other aspect of this medal.

TNG, I have already contacted NGC and described my medal, they were as confused as anyone else would be and said that they would not grade it. It was obvious they could could not identify it. When I pointed out to them that NGC (and PCGS) has graded these medals and sent them proof, NGC said they were handling the matter by referring it to their medals department. I have yet to hear back from them on that. I think that a researcher there may have attempted to i.d. my medal but the top of their head blew off after a while and gave up. One person involved with unusual medals said my best bet would be to send it to ANACS, as they often will take on a mysterious medal like mine.

Crazb0, you might be right. It is well known that Himmler was into this kind of occult stuff and it might have carried over to Hitler, especially in his later crackpot days. What a lot of people don't know is that Himmler actually finanaced a rather large treasure hunt looking for the lost Ark, just like in the Indiana Jones movie.

I have tried to clear things up, but I fear all I have done was add to the confusion, my apologies for that. I am just trying to identify my medal in its 11.7 gram weight.

again, thanks to all... mike

Yep PNG, ANACS, will try. Another weird thing that does not add up is that my 11.7 gram medal is 30mm across, which is the same width as the 60 bolivares medal which allegedly weighs in at 22.2 grams. With this medal, it is like believe nothing what you hear and only half of what you see. thanks for the comment and advice... mike

everbody hss their opinion sprue but it is a little difficult for me to accept that without a little more info than implying it might be a fake. initially I thought could POSSIBLY be a fake until I had it analyzed. what are these numbers you are talking about? the only difference I can see in the last two pictures, both are 1959's but the other one is of a different bolivares value. As I have already mentioned, is that mine has a big blank spot where the gram weight should be and I attribute that to being an error by the mint. are you familiar with this series, if so or if not let me please know your thoughts. but I am open, what makes you think so? you know, kinda expand on your comment a little. personally I don't know of any fakes that are 22k solid gold but I am open to listen.

other than the gram weight area on mine being blank, which I attribute to being a mint error, I cannot see any differences between my 1959 and the other ones except of course the difference in bolivares values because they are two different medals with different gram weights, which is normal... there are the 20 bolivares, 60 bolivares, 90 bolivares, 160 bolivares and I suspect there are more, as tax free gold suspects as well.

Heck, even my 2007 Krause does not mention the 30 gram one next to mine (if it is really 30 grams), nor the 90 bolivares NGC example.

go ahead, I won't be offended, that is why we are all here. all I am saying is qualify or explain your answer so all of us will know what you mean, I might learn something. as I said before, this whole series is nothing but one jumbled up mess of ommissions, mistakes, mis-information so it is easy to think so. but I agree, the numbers don't add up in several ways, but that is the way it was with this series, but if you could expand on that I would appreciate it. These medals differed every year.

Heck, I am still stuck on the coin vs.. medal thing bc altho I consider it a medal, I suspect it may be a possibility that many (including Krause, who lists this series in the 2007 standard catalog of modern world COINS catalog (but not in the 2018 catalog), in that the differing stated bolivares values are possibly the way the mint puts the different gram weights on them depending on what bolivares they are, substituting the gram weight for normally what is listed the deciminal value ($10, $20 dollars, etc). I am just saying why maybe some consider them coins. Do you think that is a possibility?

I know these medals well by now and you two are the only ones in a whole lot of research and among dozens of people I have corresponded with who think it might be a fake. heck, you could be right. another weird thing... Krause lists the 60 bolivares medal gram weight as 22.2 when that is supposed to be the purity (I think), aa I have seen others say the 60 bolivares auctualy weigh about 15 grams. thanks for the comment in any case... mike

whoops forgot to answer the question "is it magnetic". no, it is not magnetic. btw, I really appreciate yours and the other replies here, and I would like to know even opinions, whether they end up being correct or not. thanks again everybody... mike

this auction house had some little corrections to do... read the "salesroom notice" at the bottom. this is just a slice of what I have been running into... mike

Banco Italo Venezolano founded in 1963? dang, what about 1957-1958? that's ok, it is in Caracas Venezuela. the other website is promising...

http://listings.findthecompany.com/...FAQ&s=2OMvld