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Expert Opinion Needed - Australian 19th Century Proof & Specimen Notes.

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 1,943Next Topic  
Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2018  06:17 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This is a lot of interesting banknotes (pvt) going under the hammer in London in 2 days. [London Coins Ltd.]

Bidding opens at 4000 GBP (Aud 7100 / usd 5600)
They are not especially cheap but have caught my eye.

Would someone with a clue about old Australian notes please give me a no or nod as to if they think these 57 notes are a decent long term investment?
Ballpark guess is enough..

I have no desire to sell them, if I buy them they will be bequeathed.

Here's the Auctioneer's website description:

Australia PROOF & SPECIMEN notes (57), all different and from the 1800's, various offices of issue from various banks: English, Scottish & Australian Chartered Bank, Royal Bank of Queensland Limited, The Union Bank, Bank of Australasia, Australian Joint Stock Bank, Commercial Bank of Tasmania Limited, The Bank of North Queensland Limited, National Bank of Australasia, Queensland National Bank Limited, Queensland Government, in 1 Pound, 5 Pounds, 10 Pounds, 20 Pounds, 50 Pounds & 100 Pounds denominations, most with cut bottom margin and mounting marks on reverse, in leuchtturm lighthouse album and slipcase..

Expert-Opinion-Needed---Australian-19th-Century-Proof-&-Specimen-Notes.
Expert-Opinion-Needed---Australian-19th-Century-Proof-&-Specimen-Notes.

I can't be bothered looking every note up - if it's a likely a good buy, I'll put a bid on it.

If any knowledgeable note collector could put a word here - much obliged.
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Mr T's Avatar
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2018  07:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a long-term investment I'm not sure - I get the impression this sort of market has its ups and downs, and pre-Federation notes probably have more limited appeal.
That said, I would have thought selling them individually in Australia would be more profitable then selling them as a lot overseas.
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paxbrit's Avatar
United States
992 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2018  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paxbrit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your plan to bequeath any purchases for decades of appreciation is a lot better than expecting appreciation over a short term, like 5 or 10 years. Valuable collections are built by knowledgeable collectors spending significant sums on premium material over decades.

Having said that, what you want to purchase, and nothing else, are complete, four-margined examples, clean, untoned paper, good eye appeal, and regardless of being a 'bargain' or not. I see 5 examples in the bottom rows of the first photo that I would spend money on. In the second photo, I'm not certain I would spend any money at all. Perhaps the 3 lower notes in the left-hand row, if they are complete.

Even long-term appreciation requires a quality note that will be in demand by collectors, and this basic rule should be heeded. If you can get the entire lot for a decent price, immediately sell the dross and put away the good stuff. There is a reason why these notes are not being sold individually, you don't want to perpetuate that problem into the future.

For 5,000 Pounds, minimum, I would seek out one or two outstanding examples of these notes elsewhere, and tuck them away, avoiding all the problem notes here.
Edited by paxbrit
03/15/2018 11:27 am
Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2018  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would have thought selling them individually in Australia would be more profitable then selling them as a lot overseas


Quite possibly so.
It's a pretty well known London based Auctioneer - maybe they cannot be bothered.


Quote:
If you can get the entire lot for a decent price, immediately sell the dross and put away the good stuff. There is a reason why these notes are not being sold individually, you don't want to perpetuate that problem into the future.


That makes sense. I have no knowledge of these notes at all, and thought maybe I was seeing a bargain.

The same auction house recently graded this coin (which I am actively buying at present) as gF, and that is a horrendous mistake in grading.
While I know nothing of banknotes, I can grade Australian predecimal coins fairly accurately.
My first thought was 'hold up.. do they know what they are doing?' - and they do - but they don't know Australian stuff as well as some.
Expert-Opinion-Needed---Australian-19th-Century-Proof-&-Specimen-Notes.

As for the bank notes, they are also doing a similar lot, but of New Zealand notes.
I don't know if I want to spend three hundred hours sitting in front of the screen learning about them and deciding what's what.
That lot will cost several thousand dollars which might be more fun spent on something else.

If there are a few treasures among these notes - I have no idea which ones.
With less than 36 hours left, time is short.

If someone here who really knows their stuff said 'that's a no brainer - grab it' -
I would/will put down 8-12 thousand dollars but with those notes I'm in unfamiliar waters.

The fact that they undervalued a well known florin by over 50% made me stop and look at their Australian stuff closely.

Maybe it'd be safer to invest in premium examples of Commonwealth treasury banknotes, which always seem to get action at auction.

Cheers
Valued Member
Australia
145 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2018  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add serenitystan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi mate, I' keep it simple.. Mounting marks and cut Margins!!! ITS RUBBISH...
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paxbrit's Avatar
United States
992 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2018  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paxbrit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think you're entirely correct about the Australian coin grade, seeing as how that's in your area of expertise.

The notes, however, are something you should steer away from. If you want to spend some good money on classic notes to tuck away, visit your area dealers and inquire as to their stock. You can learn something by doing so, whereas here, you'll just learn an expensive lesson in how not to invest in banknotes.
Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2018  01:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
how not to invest in banknotes


They went for 7,500 pounds, which is mucho dinero, over 10,000 US dollars. I never placed a bid.

Someone liked 'em ..
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2018  02:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Mr T.
Perhaps those to whom you wish to bequeath them to, may do that if their interest in them, is less than the O.P's

Have a telephone chat with Noble Numismatics or Downies to confirm.
Edited by sel_69l
03/21/2018 07:24 am
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