Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsJoin Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Ancient Coins' Modern Usage & Supply

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 1,297Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2018  3:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm reading Paul Rynearson's Collecting Ancient Greek Coins and he makes some interesting statements. I'm supposing the author knows what he's talking about, but they're provocative enough that I thought them worthy of being put up here for discussion.

Quote:
While some ancient Roman bronzes were being used as currency as late as the 18th century in the outlying areas of Belgium, the vast majority of coins in the marketplace is available due to recent "finds."

I've always wondered for how long and to what extent Roman coinage continued to circulate after the collapse of the empire. Where else (if anywhere) did they remain viable all the way up into the modern era?

Quote:
When I began dealing in ancient coins in 1967, I would estimate that no more than a tenth, and probably many fewer, of ancients known today were above the ground.

Put another way, over just the last half century the supply of ancient coins has increased by 1,000% or more! Did those 20th century aficionados who had assembled fine collections end up taking a bath insofar as the value of same was concerned? Have some previous "rarities" ceased to be such? Or is the bulk of what's been found in recent decades just so much inconsequential fodder vis-à-vis the hobby?

Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
04/28/2018 9:31 pm
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2018  3:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The popularity of ancients now, as opposed to decades earlier, is also significantly higher because of their affordability.
Moderator
Learn More...
echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2018  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find it hard to believe that Roman coins were still being used as late as the 18th century. Coinage in Europe was well established in medieval times, that the use of ancient coins as currency was not needed.
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5177 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2018  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suspect that most of the post-medieval examples of circulating Roman bronze coins were hoard finds (and perhaps the occasional individual find) in areas sufficiently starved for small change (a common problem in many places) to use whatever coins they found as currency.

In any case, most medieval European monetary systems did not appear to use much copper, so I'm not sure to what extent Roman coins could have circulated there at all. (I have no idea what they used for small change either.)
Pillar of the Community
Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2018  01:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The tiniest AE4 coins seem to have circulated at a minimum among the Gothic kingdoms until the reign of Justinian. There seems to have been a deep-seated mistrust of copper coinage throughout most of non-Byzantine Europe, so I imagine that bronzes recovered during the 600-1500 timeframe would have mostly been melted down to make tools etc... it's well documented that most silver and gold recovered during that time (and later) was melted and re-coined

The only instances I have heard of Roman coins re-entering circulation are of the Vandals re-denominating first and second century bronzes as folles or half folles, and of certain coins being over struck in the 17th-19th centuries.

As an interesting aside, I have heard from multiple sources that the Gadhaiya Paisa drachms are still so commonly found in Gujarat that they carry de facto legal tender status in many rural areas; I lost the link, but someone on another forum owned one that was dug up by a farmer and used to buy 2 kilos of bananas.
Edited by Finn235
04/29/2018 01:35 am
Rest in Peace
Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2018  01:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Archeology in it's own right didn't really take off until the Brits went grave robbing tombs in the 18th Century as a "Hobby". It was mostly an "artifact" business back then, making items ranging from mummies to coins, the collectables of the elites after 1850. Coins today, because of the expansion of digs everywhere, have indeed flooded the market with hoards available. These excavations have been made popular since WW2. It is a relatively "new thing" in the scope of time, as pointed out, the Roman age was dead or dying, not needed or trusted. Copper "slugs" may have been used as barter goods but as circulating underpinned currency, doubtful, couldn't back it up by any "treasury".
Edited by Crazyb0
04/29/2018 01:49 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
3444 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2018  06:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bronze coins for the most part have always been token coins used to make change. Unless someone is willing to accept it as such it has little monetary value.
Roman tax collectors in the later empire would not even accept them for payment !
They wanted the good stuff only ....... gold !
Coin finds are for the most part made by people digging in places that have not been explored for centuries. Most ancient cities are located some distance from their modern counterparts. Usually on high ground a safe distance from the sea or river. As modern cities expand outward they often begin to cover ground once used in ancient times and of course the modern metal detectors aid immensely in ferreting out any hidden clay pots buried. The fall of the iron curtain changed things tremendously. Since the 1990's coin hoards have poured out of the Balkans and much of Eastern Europe. Nearly twenty years ago I was buying coins being dumped on ebay by several sellers for "chump change". I have a nice Balkan Sestertius of Nero that I scooped up for $68 !
Those days are mostly gone but the supply continues to grow.
Some coins have actually fallen in price since the early 1990's.
A nice copper as of Caligula set me back $450 in 1992. Today I might get $400 for it. Claudius too is now very common. Not so in 1992.

As far as modern circulation goes I remember reading that travelers to Afghanistan were finding worn Alexander drachms and tetradrachms being used as late as WWI in Central Asia.
Good silver is good silver !
I am sure they weighed everything carefully !
Pillar of the Community
DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2018  07:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Supply has increased but so too pressumably has demand. With a much larger populace and everyone being much wealtheir than back then surely the increase in supply is offset considerably.
Edited by DavidUK
04/29/2018 07:56 am
Pillar of the Community
Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2018  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Supply has increased....

Thanks in no small part to policy and law regarding hoards found in the U.K. being so much less heavyhanded than elsewhere. Most of the material dug up there finds its way into the marketplace instead of being locked away in some museum's vault.
Colligo ergo sum
  Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 1,297Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.38 seconds to rattle this change. Forums