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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2019  9:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1602 -- Countship of Schaumburg-Pinneberg, 1/24 thaler:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Valued Member
Norway
375 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Solidus, Riga, Livonia, 1601

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Edited by giljan
08/15/2019 01:02 am
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  04:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1601 Jeton from Dordrecht, Holland, Dugn.3518: two examples
'inauguration of prins Maurits of Nassau as count of Meurs'
Obv. MAVR PR AVR CO NASS CATZ MOERS MAR VER ET VLISS
Rev. IE MAINTIENDRAI 12 AVGVSTI 1601

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

there are not many types of coins/medals/tokens with a portrait of Maurice of Orange (1567-1625), Stadhouder of the United Provinces, who was the son of William of Orange (William the silent - "father of the Netherlands" - the leader during the first decades of the Dutch revolt). Maurice is remembered as an excellent military leader who reconquered a large part of the territory that was taken between 1579 and 1589 by the Spanish Netherlands during the "ten years of Alexander Farnese". Grave (see previous page) was one of the latest examples. During the truce of 12 years internal conflicts in the United Provinces especially a battle for power with Johan van Oldenbarnevelt (who was beheaded) the leadership of Maurice became less clear. After his death in 1625 he was succeeded by his younger brother Frederik Hendrik.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauri...ce_of_Orange

below a painting from the prince made 6 years later than the jetons by Michiel Janszoon van Mierevelt; on that moment, Maurice of Nassau, became prince of Orange as his older half brother died in 1607.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Edited by 1c5d7n5m
08/15/2019 05:05 am
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  04:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oops I forgot the submit the draft I prepared
Soryy



Duchy of Brabant
Real no date
Heersers: Albert & Isabella (1598-1621)
Mint: Antwerp (between 1603-1607)
ALBERTUS.ET.ELISABET.D.G.
ALBERTUS ET ELISABETH DEI GRATIA
Albert and Isabelle, by the grace of God
PHS.D.G.HISP.Z.REX.DUX.BR.
PHILIPPUS DEI GRATIA HISPANIARUM Z REX DUX BARBANTIĆ
ARCHIDUCES.AUST.DUCES.BURG.ET.BRAB
ARCHIDUCES AUSTRIĆ DUCES BURGUNDIA ET BRABANTIĆ
Archdukes of Austria and Dukes of Burgundy and Brabant
Literature: Van Gelder / Hoc 293-1
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  04:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sigismund Wasa (1587-1632)
King of Poland, Lithuania and Sweden
SOLIDUS.CIVI.RIGE.601 (sheaf of grain)
SOLIDUS CIVITATIS RIGENSIS
Crowned S monogram
SIG.III.D.G.REX.P.M.D.L
SIGISMUND TERTIUS DEI GRATIA REX POLONIAE MAGNUS DUX LITHUANIĆ

Riga mint
KM# 5
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  04:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jeton
1601
Low Countries
Siege of Rheinberg
HOSTIS DIRA MINITANS BERCA PELLITVR 1601

IRATO NVMINE NIL IVVANT VNDIQ COLLECTAE VIRES
Count of Berg (top in the middle) with his army. Army trumpeter on the left and drummer on the right. Collected troops to redeem the besieged Spanish troops. In a cloud at the top of the word "Jehovah" in Hebrew
Struck in Dordrecht (rose)
literature: Dugniolle III-IV, p. 167, no. 3517
Van Loon I, p. 558
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34471 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  05:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Schilling of Polish occupied Livonia dated AD 1601. So excited to be on the cusp of entering the 16th Century!


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  06:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So excited to be on the cusp of entering the 16th Century!


1601 Dugn.3521 Dordrecht, United Provinces: 'sieges of Rheinbergh and Oostende'
tetragrammata on both sides being part of the images, spreading the message: "God is on our side"

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Obverse: Rheinberg surrounded by the troops of Maurice of Naussau. Rays from the heavens shine on the tents of Maurice & co.
HANC CAPIMVS VIRTVTE DEI ("this place was taken with the help of God")

Reverse: Oostende (with Dutch/English ships on the forefront) under attack, but protected by the heavens. DEFENDIMVS ISTAM ("let us defend this place") CIC ICCI / SC

Prince Maurice of Naussau left with a 10,000 strong army the sieged city of Oostende in 1601 and moved 200 miles to the North-East to lay siege to the small town of Rheinbergh (today in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany - then on the East borders of the Dutch Republic). The idea was to draw Spanish military focus away from Oostende, as said before, a very important stronghold for the Dutch and English. After a siege of a few months Rheinbergh indeed surrendered. The siege of Oostende, however, defended at that moment by Francis Veere and the English forces, would last for another three years causing an enormous amount of bloodshed.

Rheinbergh (Rijnberk) would become an important point of defense of the Dutch Republic on the East borders after 1601. The structure of a 17th century defense line cannot be better illustrated than by this painting (from 1672 - Rijksmuseum Amsterdam) when king Louis XIV made is big military move to conquer the Netherlands. Here his army is near the fortifications of Rheinbergh.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
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7978 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  06:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More incredible jetons and history!

To the three Livonian schillings, I'll add a Sigismund trojak (3 groschen) Krakow mint (letter K separates the date reverse)
As we enter the next century, I expect we'll see more trojaks (also more schillings, which we haven't seen much the last week).
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Edited by tdziemia
08/15/2019 06:23 am
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sigismund trojak (3 groschen) Krakow mint


splendid coin
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
191235 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Oops I forgot the submit the draft I prepared
You are forgiven.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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7978 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As we enter the 16th century and the first 13 years of Sigismund's reign, we will see some trojaks (3 groschen) with lots of variety. While my comments will not be as interesting as the political history we have been learning, they will give some numismatic context for the Siggy coins of the next two weeks.
When minting of silver coins under Sigismund III began in 1588, production began at the same 5 mints that were in operation under his predecessor, King Stefan Batory. These were: the "crown mints" of Olkusz and Poznan in historical Poland, the Gdansk city mint in former West Prussia, the Lithuanian mint in Vilnius, and the Livonian mint in Riga.
The trojak, or 3 groschen, was the largest circulating silver denomination for the first 8 years (1588-95); minting of trojaks began in Olkusz, Poznan and Riga in 1588, and Vilnius in 1589.
Four more crown mints produced trojaks in the 1590s: Malbork (1592-94), Bydgoszcz and Wschowa (Bromberg and Fraustadt in German, 1594-1601), and Lublin (1595-1601). Krakow, which had not minted coins since 1549 began in 1600.

Each of the 9 mints that produced trojaks between 1588 and 1601 designed its own bust of Sigismund, sometimes even changing the bust within a date/year, and varied the reverse to include the emblem of local mint officials. In 1598, some of the crown mints adopted the use of a letter as mint mark. So we see B for Bydgoszcz/Bromberg, P for Poznan, L for Lublin and F for Fraustadt/Wschowa (which had previously used a mint mark in medieval times). I guess this innovation was copied from the French, as there were strong links between Poland and France at this time (the Polish-Lithuanian parliament had elected the future Henry III of France as their own king in 1574).

So the trojaks produced between 1588 and 1601 present an enormous amount of variation for collectors, and were produced in significant enough quantity to make many varieties fairly accessible. For anyone who needs to catalog a trojak, you can use the detailed Iger system through the WCN website http://iger.wcn.pl/
If you are curious about what's on the market, this September auction has over 200 trojaks in higher grades starting at lot 1204. https://onebid.pl/en/aukcje/879948/749/7/0/0 . Early trojaks can be found elsewhere (WCN, most German auction houses, even ebay) at more modest prices in lower grades, and as lots.
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 Posted 08/15/2019  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1601 -- Countship of Schaumburg-Pinneberg, 1/24 thaler:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
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7978 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@pepactonius, nice date series from Spain and now this German city-state.

I have one more for 1601, this 1 lira of Tuscany, Ferdinando I de Medici, picturing the beheading of John the Baptist:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Cracked planchet, maybe some delamination obv, and harshly cleaned.
Edited by tdziemia
08/15/2019 10:07 pm
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2703 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2019  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
1 lira of Tuscany, Ferdinando I de Medici, picturing the beheading of John the Baptist


Dramatic piece, very cool
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