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Author	Replies: 16 / Views: 2,213	Page: of 2
struckitpoor New Member United States 2 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 02:48 am Greetings, all. I am a long-time coin buff, who's taken a few decades off from collecting due to life in general and other hobbies. I came across a "Copper 1943" today on "thE bay," and am concerned for two reasons: One: Some idiot bid over $2k for it. (EDIT! Looks like it actually hit $3k.) Two: It appears like these are making a comeback? I recall my uncle tossing me "A hundred grand" as a kid - a shiny, minty, gorgeous 1943 copper cent. He said only ten existed, and it didn't stick to a magnet. I'd never heard of steel pennies, and WWII was just a four-page blurb in my 1st grade history books at the time. Sure enough, in the Numismatism section of my encyclopedia, there was a little side-bar regarding the legendary copper '43. A coin enthusiast was born! I bragged about my new windfall Mr. Waters, my science teacher. He HAD TO SEE IT. It was he who broke the news my uncle had duped me...The coin was cast (poorly) from pot metal of some sort, and copper-plated. I felt like someone had popped my hot air balloon. My one-in-a-billion coin was "Hecho en Mexico," and as novel as the gift was, I tossed it in a sock drawer to be lost forever. Some poor tit on ebay bid on a similar coin and is about to receive a $15 Spencer's gift knockoff. I hope for the seller's sake that the edge is embossed with "reprint." They even had perfect feedback! :( Anyway, my example cost me only a bit of pride and some ribbing from my science teacher. These rubes bidding on ebay MUST have just won the lotto or something. Who has $2k to spend on a blurry image of an ungraded Grail coin?! Link to closed sale: https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/202353028366 There was even a zero-feedback shill bidder all the way to $2k. So obvious to anyone with even half a pulse. It makes me sad, and I'm afraid that technology will permit some fraudster to duplicate a perfect, one-off version of this or any other Grail coin (if it hasn't happened already). Question: Has anyone heard of a fake making it past grading? It's bound to happen eventually. It makes me reluctant to invest in coins, stamps or cards again... just when the bug had returned! Anyway, a bit of a concerned rant, as well as an inquiry into just how bad it's gotten. I know baseball card fraud is RAMPANT on ebay, but coins used to be pretty easy to spot... Edited by struckitpoor 07/01/2018 03:30 am Report this Post to the Staff

Adam_E Pillar of the Community United States 4846 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 04:27 am The general adage for uncertified coins is: buyer beware. I honestly have very little sympathy for the person who spent $3000 on a coin that is so exceedingly rare and so commonly faked. As for your question, there have actually been a few circumstances of PCGS certifying counterfeit coins as genuine, as documented here: https://www.PCGS.com/news/PCGS-Grad...antee-Update Due to their buyback guarantee, they've fully reimbursed the FMV of the coins that have been found out to be counterfeit Edited by Adam_E 07/01/2018 3:00 pm Report this Post to the Staff
jasper62 Pillar of the Community United States 2189 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 08:46 am Looks like the seller has already sold a 1943-S copper cent 6 months ago Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 09:10 am Welcome to our frustration. I try to educate all who ask questions here. Rather than giving a yes or no answer, I explain what I see on their coin. I use a few images to help them see, what I see. I find this works well here. Glad to see others using my images, logic and kindness. I ran onto a web site recently that sells fakes. So what do I do. Educate so that they will learn rather than spend money for bogus stuff sold. So we know your frustration. Welcome aboard. Report this Post to the Staff
da Swampster Valued Member United States 420 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 10:06 am Quote: Greetings, all. I am a long-time coin buff... What Coop said.. Also what P.T. Barnum (supposedly) said.. There's plenty of diagnostic, confirmational and/or fraud-busting information out there and readily available these days for anyone who bothers to take even the slightest amount of time out of their oh-sooo-busy schedule to check the validity of just about anything prior to making a purchase.. I honestly can't bring myself to feel sorry for those saps, since ya just know they are buying it on the premise of flipping it for an even bigger pay day.. Odds are they don't even have a collection to put a coin like that into (assuming it is real, which it isn't) and I doubt they were buying it as their starter coin.. I say let them be the example we'll read about next month in The Daily Mail and let them be the one who needs to go through the time-consuming and most likely futile process of trying to recover their loss from a "brother-in-arms.." That old adage: "If it seems too good to be true it probably is" is still just as valid today as it ever was, probably even more so in this messed up era of "lies are the new truth" being foisted upon us.. Swamp PS: Welcome to CCF.. Edited by da Swampster 07/01/2018 10:17 am Report this Post to the Staff
Kopper Ken Pillar of the Community United States 3402 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 10:14 am Cheap for a real '43 copper...expensive for a fake one. KK Report this Post to the Staff
struckitpoor New Member United States 2 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 11:06 am Thanks guys. Basically the same thing I thought - greed and lack of common sense help make terrible choices. This seller has quite the racket, but I'm almost certain that fraud and counterfiting are frowned on by Uncle Sam. I'm glad to hear the grading svc stood behind their errors! I'm going out to some yard sales to look for old coins and 1990s rookie cards. Cheers! Report this Post to the Staff
DeputyMax Valued Member United States 424 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 12:30 pm You've come to the right place for education and advice. One thing I've always found amusing, or should I say galling, is after taking someone to the cleaners with a fake coin,they make them pay $3.99 to send it to them. Report this Post to the Staff
Errers and Varietys Bedrock of the Community United States 73756 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 1:34 pm To CCF! I don't think this is a real Copper Wheat cent etheir. These are very commonly faked. Errers and Varietys. Report this Post to the Staff
fortcollins Pillar of the Community United States 3628 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 6:33 pm And the bidders weren't even alerted when the "coin" was being sold by a seller named "s888n" ("Satan")? Report this Post to the Staff
moxking Rest in Peace United States 17900 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 6:38 pm It takes time to be proficient with any skill, including coin identification. Those who believe in easy education without that time commitment are ripe for the picking. Report this Post to the Staff
jasper62 Pillar of the Community United States 2189 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 6:41 pm Quote: seller named "s888n" ("Satan")? I didn't even catch that. Thanks for pointing it out Report this Post to the Staff
fortcollins Pillar of the Community United States 3628 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 6:49 pm They don't call it " ebay" for nothing! Report this Post to the Staff
Conder101 Bedrock of the Community United States 17884 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 8:15 pm Quote: Question: Has anyone heard of a fake making it past grading? It's bound to happen eventually. It makes me reluctant to invest in coins, stamps or cards again... just when the bug had returned! Fake 1943 copper cents? NO. Fakes in general? Yes. The services are not infallible and in the past few years some good Chinese fakes have gotten past all three of the top TPG's. And that doesn't include the fake Micro O Morgans that fooled the services for years. (NGC and ANACS determined they were fakes in 1998, PCGS kept slabbing them as genuine for another seven years.) Edited by Conder101 07/01/2018 8:20 pm Report this Post to the Staff
southsav Pillar of the Community 2222 Posts	Posted 07/01/2018 8:51 pm to CCF Great question and topic. Don't be a stranger. Good luck hunting. Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 187702 Posts	Posted 07/02/2018 1:51 pm to the Community! Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
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