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1909 VDB (Lwc) Matte Proof Obsession

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Rb67's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  01:35 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Rb67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***

I know, I know, it's a dead horse. Poor horse didn't do anything to anyone. It's like that movie, "Inception". Someone makes a comment on your rims and then it starts.

Now fast forward.

Upon further inspection. I've found arrows pointing this way, that way and over there.

So here is what I've glimpsed.

My 1909 V.D.B.

1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession

Now the rims look flat in these pictures. So I looked into that aspect of the Matte Proof. I found my 1909 has areas that are flat and some areas that are worn? or damaged? but not rounded like smooth or anything like that. You be the judge.

Flat?
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession

Round?

1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession

Then the die cracks or the myth of them. If you start looking into them there is some debate just like the V.D.B. initials and the placement of the periods.

Hard to see, but it's faint. All of these can be seen if you hold the lighting, your breath and hold the coin just so.
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession


....and after that. You hear "Nope, not one of those Matte Proofs". Doesn't have the Die crack after the M in UNUM. You know the crescent shaped one. My question is this. Who's to say when that die developed that tell, tell, sign? Is it possible that one diagnostic came after another? Is there a chronological order when these diags started? Did they all happen at once? I'm just asking. because errors develop as wear or human error occurs? Right?

Why have I seen sleeved Matte Proof with the center period in the initials where mine is? Are they a mistake? Could that diag. also evolved?

Feel free to tell me to step away from the water bong(won't catch me near one). Or talk me down off the ledge.

I can say one thing. I'm learning.
Edited by Rb67
07/15/2018 01:38 am
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spru's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  02:52 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Despite the fact that I disagree with you on the strike type of the coin, I am no expert in this so I will say that if you have enough conviction that the coin is a matte proof, I suggest submitting it to a TPG for authentication. I can't recommend one over another because I have never dealt with them.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  04:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are that sure it is a matte,send it to ANACS (because it cost the least). If it comes back as not a matte,I bet you will still get a nice grade on it and then you will know for sure about what type strike it is.
John1
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  08:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The dot on the VDB are different on the plain BS and the matte proof:
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession

Yours is a business strike. But I saved you a little money/time/anguish.

But doing some searching today to answer a question. I was asked by Zac why his 1909 business strike coin had the dot centered like the matte proof coins had. So I started looking at about 300 examples to figure out a ratio for them. 50% of them have the V.D.B. in the normal position. 20% had the dots centered between the V.D . B. Then there were 30% that the dots were weakened or missing and I looked through BU high grade coins on PCGS. So I check back at all the matte proofs and they all have the same design. The V.D . B. So the coin is the thread is the common V.D.B. But I did note something new. On the 1909 VDB DDO-002, the location is like the matte proof on all examples I checked. The V.D . B. centered center dot. But a very high percentage that were not from that die pair, also had the centered dot. So while it is a good marker to confirm, there are many examples that have the dot centered that are not the DDO-002.
1909-VDB-Lwc-Matte-Proof-Obsession
Edited by coop
07/15/2018 5:11 pm
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep. Yours is a Business Strike example. It's not a Matte Proof. Still a very nice coin in a nice grade though!
Errers and Varietys.
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Rb67's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rb67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I get it. The V.D.B. period is the nail in the coffin? No chance of a miracle here.

How may have sent a wishful candidate off and decide not to update the collective due to disappointment? I'd like to know what the grade ended up. If you wish to remain anonymous then email me. Also what would retail on a coin like this run, besides the "whatever someone is willing to pay for it" answer. Just curious. Google has them fairly low and ebay has a bunch at the "say what!" end of the spectrum.

ETA: Thank you!
Edited by Rb67
07/15/2018 1:20 pm
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Keep looking! We all learned something here.



to the CCF!
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DrDon's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rb67


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Rb67's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2018  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rb67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing coop.
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