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Coin Worn Smooth - No Idea What It Was... (Id: 1797 British Penny)

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United Kingdom
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 Posted 07/17/2018  04:54 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bluesntwos to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Please can someone tell me what this coin was. There is barely anything left to identify it as it is almost completely smooth on both sides. It's 2mm thick though and haven't found anything online that is similar. If anyone could help on what it was, I would be very grateful. Thanks.
Coin-Worn-Smooth---No-Idea-What-It-Was...-Id:-1797-British-Penny
Coin-Worn-Smooth---No-Idea-What-It-Was...-Id:-1797-British-Penny
Coin-Worn-Smooth---No-Idea-What-It-Was...-Id:-1797-British-Penny
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 07/17/2018  05:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bluesntwos, first welcome to CCF. Second, with that broad circumferential band showing in your second picture, I am reminded of a two pence (perhaps from George III?) with a seated Britannia. What is the diameter--is it close to 40 mm?
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 Posted 07/17/2018  05:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bluesntwos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Spence. Thank you for the kind welcome. It is actually measuring at 34mm. I have been sorting through some old coins (none very valuable unfortunately). I have had this one many years and it has always stumped me as to what it is. I have done some research on the Internet initially but have had no luck finding anything similar, hence the post!
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 07/17/2018  05:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok yes Bs&Ts, thanks for posting the diameter. I wasn't trying to minimize the work that you have already put into researching this coin. That second pic just looked like a late 18th century tuppence to me. Hopefully others will be on the forum later today who can be more helpful.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 07/17/2018  05:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bluesntwos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Spence, no offence taken. I was just explaining that I hadn't jumped onto the forum without doing some of my own research as I know from other forums that some people do. Unfortunately, as you can see, there are little identifying features left to go off apart from what you can see! I appreciate you taking the time to read my post.
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 Posted 07/17/2018  08:13 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was thinking of a George III cartwheel penny from 1797 - these had a diameter of 36mm.

Or the George III 1798 Isle of Man penny - diameter 33mm:

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces37913.html
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 07/17/2018  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bluesntwos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NumisRob - thanks for the info. It does appear to be an old coin, much older than the other coins I have which date from 1950 onwards. I'm assuming it has been through a good few hands to be smooth like that!
Edited by bluesntwos
07/17/2018 3:40 pm
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chafemasterj's Avatar
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 Posted 07/17/2018  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chafemasterj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the Forum bluesntwos. You've come to a phenomenal place to share and learn.

Just for grins I went on Numista and typed in 34 mm diameter and copper. I think there were ~3K matches. It's in there someplace.
Check out my counterstamped Lincoln Cent collection:
http://goccf.com/t/303507
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 Posted 07/17/2018  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bluesntwos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ha ha ha, I may be some time!
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16816 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2018  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the broad rim and 34mm diameter, it surely must be a British "cartwheel" penny of 1797. I believe I can make out the outline of Britannia on the reverse - the middle picture needs to be rotated about 20 degrees anticlockwise.

They were actually struck from 1797 to 1799, all bearing the "1797" date.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 07/17/2018  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bluesntwos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that, sounds interesting!
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 Posted 07/17/2018  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bluesntwos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Apparently the cartwheel penny was meant to weigh its exact value in copper (one ounce) which equates to 28.34g. Mine weighs 25g. Hmmmm.
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ryurazu's Avatar
Australia
1333 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2018  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ryurazu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also think it is a cartwheel penny since the 2nd picture has a rasied rim, the weight should be roughly 7% less ballpark due to the wear.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16816 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2018  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thee coins were unpopular in circulation because they were so heavy - especially the twopence, which weighed exactly two avoirdupois ounces. But shopkeepers loved them, because they didn't have to buy as many one-ounce and two-ounce weights to use with their scales.

Less-than-honest shopkeepers liked heavily worn coins, of course, as they weighed less; the more worn, the better. Perhaps your coin was used by such a shopkeeper. Your coin also shows evidence of pitting and corrosion, so perhaps it was underground or underwater for some time, and subsequently cleaned.

Whatever the cause of the wear and corrosion, it is certain that a coin this badly worn and corroded would have lost considerable weight. So hearing the coin only weighs 25 grams instead of the regulation 28.35 grams does not surprise me or concern me.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 07/18/2018  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bluesntwos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everyone for taking the time to provide such informative replies. I have no intention of keeping the coin and was going to sell it. Unfortunately I don't have enough posts to sell it on here so if it is of interest to anyone who has commented, please make contact with me. Thanks again.
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