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1880-O And 1887-P Morgans

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ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  02:17 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
First, let me say hello all!! It's been a while since my wife and I have been to the forum. We have been VERY busy posting a listing for our collection. (Edited to remove reference to items for sale. 50 posts are required and must be posted in the Buy/Sell/Trade when that requirement is met.) As I am sure most of you remember, we were devistated by Hurricane Katrina. Well, we're back at our collecting again; however, we are going to start the ENTIRE family collection over....starting with two Morgans that I need some help with.

One is an 1880-O. This is a very strange "thing" that my wife and I found. I am not even really sure HOW to describe it other than it appears that Lady Liberty has "gotten into the groove of things" and got her lips pierced! Let me see if the picture can be displayed.



Image: 1880-O-And-1887-P-Morgans PIC00005.jpg
88.67 KB


Ok. Look at the lips. (I know this is a poor picture, but it was the smallest file size I have of it. I have NUMEROUS others that I can email you.) There is a "diamond-shaped" extension from the chin to the "pouty" portion of her lower lip. In the picture, it looks like a shelf. Now, again between the lips...the same thing! This shape appears about 5 times in various places on this coin. ? WHAT IS IT??

Here is another. This time it is on the back of her hair line almost directly to the left of the second star after UNUM. In the picture, it looks like a scratch in the center...again, please, email me for the better pictures.



Image: 1880-O-And-1887-P-Morgans PIC00007.jpg
94.86 KB

Any help in this will be appreciated! Thanks!!!!!!
Valued Member
ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  02:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are also some of the same shapes on the 1887-P that we have. These coins are in EXTREMELY HIGH GRADE (though not professionally graded) and are oddities if I have ever seen them. It ranks up there with the arrows on the obverse of the gentleman's Morgan in another topic on this discussion. Are these VAMs? Errors of the minting process? WE DON'T KNOW! Please, oh, please, SOMEONE HELP MRS. LIBERTY FIND HER TRUE IDENTITY!!!! (Ok...I know that goes a little overboard...but, seriously, all help would be GREATLY appreciated.)
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  07:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please do not reference your items for sale as you have not met the 50-post requirement.
Valued Member
ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  09:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do apologize for that error.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  4:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's tough to say, given the quality of the pictures. The first picture could be a die clash; the second, the result of a cracked die. It's more important to have clear pictures than small ones. If you by chance have clearer pictures, regardless of size, you could email them to me and I can arrange something more appropriate for posting here, to include webspace to store them.

I'll be home all night - the better half is working and I'm spending the evening in front of the monitor (like usual).
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ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Super Dave. I'll get on those pictures in a little bit. (Need to eat first.) Thanks again for your help!
Valued Member
ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh...I need your email address too!
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  8:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by ezsellingsolutions

Oh...I need your email address too!



Good point. Send it to superdave.agoraATgmail.com.
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Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ezss, it would also be helpful to the rest of us if you could post pics of the whole coins to the forum. Helps give us an overall picture (npi).

Thanks!

Fred
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ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Super...they're on the way at you....GOOD LUCK!!!!! By the way...I still say the odds are astronomically IMPOSSIBLE...and believe me...I NEVER say anything is impossible...but this....I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E!!!
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ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK the wait is over...here is one image that I was able to compress...good luck with the identification! This is of an 1887-P Morgan. The area: Lady Liberty's lips! (No, she did not go hang out with the latest rock band and get her lips pierced...this is what we are trying to figure out...WHAT IS IT?!)


Image: 1880-O-And-1887-P-Morgans PIC00002.jpg
18.34 KB
Valued Member
ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2006  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And here is the 1880-O...not as dramatic...but there none the less...SUSANLYNN....PLEASE...CALL ROB J. AND GET HIS OPINION!!! Could there be a new VAM of the same description, on TWO coins, from different mints, within 7 years time of being minted? Like I said...the odds are astronomically impossible...but hey...it could happen!

YIPPIE!!!!! I finally got them!!! [:p][:p][:p]Still confused though



Image: 1880-O-And-1887-P-Morgans PIC00006.jpg
17.34 KB
Valued Member
ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2006  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the way, this is off the topic, but I can finally admit that today, I have accomplished something in my life that I never thought would happen. My wife and I went to a nearby pharmacy to purchase some coins from the older gentleman that owns it. I told him to surprise me by bringing out something that he has never showed me before. To my surprise, after several minutes of waiting, Dean appeared with 7 of the MOST BEAUTIFUL specimens I have ever seen! An 1877 Indian Head cent, a 1909-S and S-VDB, not 1 but 2 1914D Lincolns, a 1916D Mercury dime, and what had to be THE MOST AWESOME SITE OF ALL...a RAW, absolutely beautiful, gorgeously RED 1955 DDDDOOOUUUBBBLLLEEEE DIE!!!!! (I thought my wife was going to have to pick me up off the floor!) That is the FIRST, and will probably be the last, time I have ever seen coins of this stature in my life...EVEN MORE...I HELD THEM FOR OVER 30 MINUTES...he just smirked. Sorry, like I said...I know it was off topic, but I had to share my story...ok...back to the Morgans....DOES ANYONE HAVE A CLUE?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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thekidcollector's Avatar
Kuwait
1523 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2006  04:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thekidcollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh I'de wish I just saw a S-VDB in the flesh, OH I wish!!
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2006  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I received your pics, and what you've posted since is about as good as I could make them.

The only potential clash source is the olive leaves, and they'd have to be rotated irregularly to even contact the lips. I did some playing in CorelDraw to check it out. There are no concave surfaces in them, anyways.

I can't think of anything that would cause a die to fracture in such a manner except for a flaw in the metal of the die.

This is a good one.
Valued Member
ezsellingsolutions's Avatar
United States
110 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2006  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ezsellingsolutions to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So, basically, what you are saying is that we have TWO HIGHLY IRREGULAR MORGANS on our hands!?! And that the odds are in OUR favor for once? SUSANLYNN!!!! HELP!!!!! CALL ROB J. WE NEED HIM FOR THIS!!!!

Dave, keep those pictures handy. I'll work on getting better obvs and revs of both for you to work with. This is getting GOOD!
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