Franklin 1963 Doubled Die Reverse / DDR / Updated 7/10

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Author	Replies: 11 / Views: 1,998
amac44 Member United States 3242 Posts	Posted 07/06/2008 11:37 am The reveres of this Franklin looks like a DDR. here it is The pictures Above look like the 62 Proof DDR in the Cherrypicker guide. this last picture shows the the rim is missing from 11 o'clock to 1 this is what I think some how the 62 proof rev die was struck on this? Your thoughts? Edited by amac44 07/08/2008 08:02 am Report this Post to the Staff

seattleMD Valued Member United States 405 Posts	Posted 07/06/2008 3:16 pm It looks to me like the doubling is appearing on both sides of the 'PL' lettering which is indicative of Die Deterioration to me. However, the doubling on the 'IBUS' and 'UM' appears to only be on the right side. I dunno - tough call. Report this Post to the Staff
foundinrolls Pillar of the Community United States 3507 Posts	Posted 07/06/2008 4:28 pm Hi Amac, I can't tell from the pictures.... Thanks, Bill Report this Post to the Staff
foundinrolls Pillar of the Community United States 3507 Posts	Posted 07/08/2008 10:17 pm Hi, The pictures are better and it is not a Doubled die. I have two of them around here someplace and the ones I have are doubled dies. I'll try to get some pictures up so you can compare them. There are grooves and notches that are very distinct. Your coin does not show any. I'll find the coins and post some pics. I'll be back..... Thanks, Bill Report this Post to the Staff
foundinrolls Pillar of the Community United States 3507 Posts	Posted 07/08/2008 11:20 pm Hi, Here is what a DDR looks like on a 1963 Franklin. I posted just the E PLURIBUS UNUM. I intentionally placed the picture in here upside down. It is easier to see the notches and grooves this way. From what I can see, The coin at the beginning of the thread shows nothing like this. Thanks, Bill Edited by foundinrolls 07/08/2008 11:22 pm Report this Post to the Staff
rockdude Pillar of the Community United States 1807 Posts	Posted 07/08/2008 11:41 pm Would this be a DDR? Most all the letters are the same Edited by rockdude 07/08/2008 11:43 pm Report this Post to the Staff
foundinrolls Pillar of the Community United States 3507 Posts	Posted 07/08/2008 11:42 pm Rockdude, No, that would be Machine Doubling damage on the mintmark. Thanks, Bill Edited by foundinrolls 07/09/2008 9:45 pm Report this Post to the Staff
tights24 Pillar of the Community United States 2254 Posts	Posted 07/09/2008 07:22 am Rockdude, hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong here and giving you incorrect information, but the easiest way I found to immediately rule out true doubling(for coins that had the mint mark placed by hand, pre-1990?), is if the letters, date, etc around the coin are "doubled" AND the mintmark is doubled, it is Machine Doubling or Die Deterioration Doubling, and not a true doubled die coin. Hopefully that helps, and hopefully I am correct..... Report this Post to the Staff
rockdude Pillar of the Community United States 1807 Posts	Posted 07/09/2008 09:40 am Thanks, and if you are correct it helps to understand the difference. Would this be Die Deterioration Doubling? Edited by rockdude 07/09/2008 09:41 am Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/09/2008 10:12 am Rockdude: The 1989 Cent isn't a doubled die. The direction toward the rim is usually associated with Die Deterioration for the look following in that direction. Also plating movement flows in the same direction. So best to say it isn't a doubled die. On the Franklin reverse: If you look at the sizes of the devices, they are overall normal. The metal is pushed and makes it appear doubled, but is just Machine Doubling as mentioned. On a real doubled die the devices usually enlarge because of the doubling created when the die is hubbed. When you take a rubber stamp and press it twice on a location you can see the spread between the two stamping. So when the die is hubbed that way, all coins made with that die are doubled because of the die. Not because of the striking process. Report this Post to the Staff
amac44 Member United States 3242 Posts	Posted 07/09/2008 10:29 am thanksa Report this Post to the Staff
foundinrolls Pillar of the Community United States 3507 Posts	Posted 07/09/2008 9:56 pm Hi Tights, Generally, your statement is correct about pre-1990 cents but there are exceptions. One of the two recently found 1969 S Lincoln Cent DDOs had the fantastic doubling on the date but also exhibited Machine Doubling on the S due to the strike. So the date was doubled and the Mintmark showed evidence of Machine Doubling. It is safe to say that a coin struck with doubled dies could also have the appearance of a doubled mintmark due to Machine Doubling. Thanks, Bill Report this Post to the Staff
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Franklin 1963 DDR/ Updated 7/10