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Replies: 14 / Views: 4,740 |
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New Member
United States
0 Posts |
Hello...I am very new here and have been collecting coins since I was 6. I have acquired a 1900 Barber half dollar about 1 year ago from ebay; both myself and the seller not knowing that it was a counterfeit. I kept this piece as I only purchased it for less than $10.00. I was wondering if there is anyone out there that has any information as to why someone would make a counterfeit piece such for such an unpopular series and if any chance there is some value to it? I also have a vast majority of coins in my collection; ranging from a St. Patrick Farthing to the 2008P Bald Eagle Proof Commemorative and would be more than happy to share comments with fellow collectors in this wonderful hobby! Any replies will be much appreciated. Thanks, Dave *** Moved to US Classic Forum by Forum Dad ***
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
 and 
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote: I was wondering if there is anyone out there that has any information as to why someone would make a counterfeit piece such for such an unpopular series That's actually a pretty good reason to do it. Either it's a contemporary counterfeit (created while the coins were in circulation), made to circulate as "real" money - remember, 50 Cents was a fair amount of cash in 1900. Or, it's a modern counterfeit, made at a cost of less than a penny and sold for $10 worth of pure profit, and as a "common" coin, unlikely to generate as much attention as, say, a Saint Gaudens counterfeit would. If you mint a few thousand like that, and sell them on ebay, you make decent money. And that's precisely what the Chinese counterfeiters are doing.
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Valued Member
United States
486 Posts |
Sorry but it can be hard enough telling if a coin is counterfeit even with pictures, let alone no pictures.  -PP
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
Dave - My experience with fakes on ebay is that they go after the key / semi-key dates but the coins were worn to F-VF condition. If you saw those dies they had, the ones that stood out were the British Sovereign, assorted Flowing Hair and Draped Bust dollars and halves and 1889-CC Morgan.
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Valued Member
United States
486 Posts |
Sorry to sound harsh but any coin can be counterfeit, and it is not possible to tell if it is real or not without any pictures. -PP
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
And how do I know this is the real Pennypusher responding?  I want proof!  But yeah--pics might help us tell if it's a recent forgery; a contemporary would be very interesting--and worth the $10.
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Valued Member
United States
486 Posts |
In the flesh KurtS  -PP
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New Member
Taiwan
39 Posts |
In China everything is faked - including the slabs. There's an interesting article with slide show posted on about.com. Just Google: 'Chinese Counterfeiter Strikes a Fake Silver Coin' and enjoy the pictures. The only way to have a reasonable chance of avoiding fakes is to carry a scale and weigh the coins.If they're slabbed weigh an empty slab and subtract it's weight from the total. Also NEVER buy coins from ebay when the seller is located in China. Taiwan has few fakes [I think] but on July 4 direct flights began after a hiatus of nearly 60 years. And as mainland Chinese can now enter Taiwan as tourists the shady dealers will follow.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
If it's a contemporary counterfeit then it has some value to it. If it's from China then it's not worth much. It would be cool if it was a contemporary counterfeit. Can you post pictures? How did you know it was fake?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
If it isn't a high grade coin (and for $10 I don't think it would be.) then it is probably a contemporary counterfeit like Superdave said. While we wouldn't think of counterfeiting a half dollar today to circulate it, back around 1900 a half dollar represented about half a days pay for a non skilled or semi-skilled worker. (Think of it as being the same as counterfeiting a fifty dollar bill today.) And when they were making the counterfeits they weren't just making one coin. If they were casting they could probably use a multiple coin mold and make a few hundred an hour. If they had a press and were striking them they could make between a thousand and eighteen hundred an hour. (To put it back in modern terms, your printing press is turning out from $40,000 to $90,000 in fifty dollar bills an hour. Sounds worth it.) The real problem becomes how to move the fakes fast enough to make it worthwhile, while at the same time not drawing attention to yourself.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
I just noticed that the original poster is SupaDaver...maybe a Chinese counterfeit of SuperDave? 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1931 Posts |
ok the term contemporary counterfeit intrigues me. I also have a counterfeit posting up today. How can anyone tell when it was counterfeited? are there tests for that? are there counterfeits that are actually valuable?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
malissadawn, Coin counterfeiting has been around since coins have been around. For various reasons counterfeiting U.S. coinage was very popular in the 1800's. There were two popular methods, casting and spark erosion (electotype). Casting is the crudest method and involved creating an obverse and reverse mold for the coin and pouring liquid metal into the cavity between the molds. These cast copies were made to fool merchants. If you look closely at them you will see inconsistencies ... the color is almost always off (nothing like silver), there is usually a seam around the edge where the mold halves come together, and 99.9% of these are underweight (tin composites don't have the same weight as silver). I can spot these by looking at the denticles on the coin. Most cast copies the denticles fade in and out. Electotypes were created by sacrificing a genuine coin to make a die. Electrodes were connected between the genuine coin and the blank die and electricity was passed. The sparks eroded the metal on the blank die to match the master coin ... any imperfection or anomaly on the master coin was passed to the new die. The devices were also not as crisp as the original. These also are almost always underweight. With experience you can also pick up certain die markers that are on every coin ... one I am familiar with is on the Seated half dollar, a slash on Liberty's shield. Whenever I see one of these offered as genuine on ebay I notify the seller. The third method is more modern and is discussed at length (with pictures) in other threads ... the modern Chinese counterfeits. These have gotten very sophisticated and are hard to detect for the average and even advanced coin collector.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote: ok the term contemporary counterfeit intrigues me. I also have a counterfeit posting up today. How can anyone tell when it was counterfeited? are there tests for that? are there counterfeits that are actually valuable? Contemporary Counterfeit is used to mean a counterfeit made at roughly the same time period in which the coin was in common circulation and which was intended to circulate at face value cheating the merchant. Typically these coins are cast in base metal and were often plated or coated to resemble the proper metal. Usually they are crude and would be easily recognized if looked at closely. (These coins were often passed in areas that ere not well lit or in markets that were very busy so the merchant did not have to time to look at them closely. This is in contrast to the numismatic counterfeit which was made in order to sell to coin collectors at a significant profit above face value. These counterfeits are usually struck and come in two main categories, the tourist counterfeit, and the coin collector counterfeit. The tourist counterfeits are often in either base metal or lower fineness than the real coins and usually are fairly close in appearance to the genuine coins. They also often can be found with non-existent date/mint combinations and even sometimes mismatched obv/rev mules. The coin collector counterfeits tend to be key date/mint combinations and are often of even higher quality and in the proper alloy and are intended to be sold for their key date premiums. There is some overlap among these categories, for example the middle east gold counterfeits of the 1950' and 60's which were tourist counterfeits even though they were mostly common date coins but made of full weight and the proper fineness of gold. (The counterfeiters were making their money on the difference in value between what common generic gold coins were selling for and what the bullion value of the fakes were.) And sometimes the low quality tourist counterfeits or a contemporary counterfeit can be found with a key date/mint combination. Are there counterfeits that are actually valuable? Oh yes, a few examples Contemporary counterfeit bust halves are often collected by die variety and they are often worth MORE than the genuine coins in the same condition. Then there are the Machins Mills counterfeit British half pence. These can be worth hundreds of dollars. Several of the die varieties of our state coinages from the 1780's are actually contemporary counterfeits. They are quite valuable. There are hundreds of contemporary counterfeit varieties of Conder tokens listed in Dalton and Hamer and they ae collected right along with and valued similarly to the genuine tokens
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Replies: 14 / Views: 4,740 |
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