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1956 Wheat Back- Die Chip/Flake Under 5

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chuckster 125's Avatar
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4113 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2008  04:02 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Is this a chip, flake, or something else by the 5 on this 1956 wheat back cent.

Image: 1956-Wheat--Back--Die-Chip/Flake-Under-5 1956jpeg1.jpg
55.84 KB

Image: 1956-Wheat--Back--Die-Chip/Flake-Under-5 1956jpeg2.jpg
62.08 KB

Image: 1956-Wheat--Back--Die-Chip/Flake-Under-5 1956jpeg3.jpg
43.32 KB

Image: 1956-Wheat--Back--Die-Chip/Flake-Under-5 1956jpeg4.jpg
33.94 KB
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pyrbob's Avatar
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1943 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2008  06:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hard to tell exactly, but it looks like a small lamination.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 07/11/2008  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed. Lamination that is staring to peel.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
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 Posted 07/11/2008  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,
I think the coin took a hit on the 5. You can see it. I then think that the hit displaced some of the surface metal right where you see it.

So while the metal may be raised and broken it is due to the damage that occurred.

Thanks,
Bill
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chuckster 125's Avatar
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 Posted 07/11/2008  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Bill:

If that were the case damge to the 5 - how did the metal get underneath the 5?- looking close up- its under the 5 also.


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rockdude's Avatar
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1807 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2008  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rockdude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is rather strange as well.

1956-Wheat--Back--Die-Chip/Flake-Under-5
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foundinrolls's Avatar
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 Posted 07/12/2008  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It doesn't get under the 5 as such, it's there in the first place, the hit on the 5 displaces the metal under the 5. There is an equal and opposite reaction to the hit. The metal under the 5 is raised and the surface metal cracks and is forced upward as the 5 is pushed down.

Imagine, if you will, a piece of wood being hit with a hammer. There is a mark left at the point of impact and wood around the edge of it based upon the structure of the wood will splinter upwards.

That piece on the 1954 S is the result of a die chip or a damage on the die. Nothing unusual in the mid fifties. Cents from that period are loaded with die chips.

Thanks,
Bill

Edited by foundinrolls
07/12/2008 12:41 am
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pyrbob's Avatar
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 Posted 07/12/2008  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bill, at first after read after reading your last post my thoughts were a hit as you described in wood will displace as you said but would make a bump or a mound and would not have a sharp edge. But after rereading your first post I think what you are saying is this hit on the 5 instead of creating the expected bump moved the metal and created a tear or lamination. The metal was not mixed well at this spot but was deep enough that it didn't form this lamination until the damage caused it to form. I didn't think of that and that a very good observation. I can see where that could be the case here. I hope that I understood you right and I didn't just put words in your mouth (or forum response as the case may be).
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foundinrolls's Avatar
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 Posted 07/12/2008  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

You are sorta adding something I didn't mean so I will try to clarify.

OK..Take a 5 and imagine it on the surface of the piece of wood I used before:-)

1956-Wheat--Back--Die-Chip/Flake-Under-5

Now take a hammer and whack the 5 in the comparable spot that the damage is seen on the 5 on the coin at the beginning of this thread. The orange circle represents that spot. After the hit, that spot would show a depression of some sort based upon the shape of the object hitting the numeral. In the case of this example... a hammer. In the case of the coin in the original picture...some unknown force:-)

1956-Wheat--Back--Die-Chip/Flake-Under-5

Now imagine what would happen around the point of impact, some of which is indicated by the blue area. The wood would splinter in an upward direction coming off the surface of the wood.

1956-Wheat--Back--Die-Chip/Flake-Under-5

Now put the entire picture together Wood (coin) takes a hit on the 5.

Area around the 5 on the Wood (coin) splinters coming up off the surface of the Wood (coin).

Notice I did not use the word lamination when referencing the coin. The reason is that "lamination" is a term that is most often used in numismatics, by error specialists to denote a type of specific error. The use of the word implies an error and I don't want to do that on a coin that is simply damaged.

Technically, on the coin, metal has separated as a layer from the surface was broken when damaged by the hit. So by a dictionaries definition, in non-numismatic terms, we are looking at what might be called a lamination, or for some, the results of a delamination of the surface metal caused by damage.

Numismatically though, it is a damage and the term lamination should only enter the picture when describing the damage. Indicating in any way that this "lamination" due to damage has anything to do with "lamination" as a descriptive term being applied to "lamination errors" can paint a confusing and possibly false impression.

So to encapsulate this. The coin was damaged, the surface shows lamination due to the damage and this is in no way to be confused with a "lamination error".

I think that is about as clear as I can get it:-)

Thanks,
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
07/12/2008 3:02 pm
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pyrbob's Avatar
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1943 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2008  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bill, that was very clear. You don't like the use of the word lamination used in this instance because it could cause someone to think of the coin as an error instead of as the damaged coin it is. That makes alot of sense. Thank you for the clarification.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
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3507 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2008  7:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BINGO
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