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1862 Penny Variant Help Needed

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theunsla's Avatar
South Africa
112 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2018  02:10 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add theunsla to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi everyone. I need help with this beautiful penny of 1862.

According to Krause 4 variants of this coin were struck. If we eliminate two of them (the overstrike date and halfpenny date), it leaves 2 variants, namely the one without the reverse signature (with LC Wyon) on obverse, or the one without the obverse LC Wyon signature.

I can faintly make out the LC Wyon signature, but nothing on the reverse. Is this the variant with no reverse signature?




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1862-Penny-Variant-Help-Needed
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Mr T's Avatar
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2018  06:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1862 varieties are actually to do with the obverse - in this case there is no L C WYON under the portrait so it is the common Freeman 6+G.
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zookeeperz's Avatar
United Kingdom
695 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2018  07:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zookeeperz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is the Standard Obverse 6 reverse G 1862 penny but Here's the thing. I am questioning the obverse 6 on some coins as possible transitional dies akin to the canadian cents struck by the heaton mint where one bust type was struck over another. We are supposed to take on face value that all obverse 6 has a die flaw on the top colon after D: of F:D:.The flaw on your coin is a break in the linear line which is completely different to the flawed colon. Also obverse 6 the colons point to the far right edge of the 3rd tooth from the shoulder. Your coin points directly at it which I have also seen on an example before. Also Obverse 6 has the B of BRITT almost touching the hairline at the back of Victoria's head . Notice on your coin it is quite a distance away more resembling obverse 5. It cannot be obverse 2 as the signature would be prominent half on half off the bottom of the mantle and obverse 2 sits much higher on the planchet and doesn't have a recessed area on the mantle. There could be many reasons or theory as to why your coin exhibits features of 2 obverses 1 could be it's simply struck on a slightly smaller planchet which would affect where the normal markers are for this obverse.
I have seen hundreds of obverse 6 1862 pennies and there are many that have these strange traits some look very low relief others high relief normally a distinctive gap between the teeth and the mantle or like yours well below the linear circle line and almost touching the border teeth. Just my opinion but I am not convinced there are just the documented obverse dies for this particular year
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zookeeperz's Avatar
United Kingdom
695 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2018  07:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zookeeperz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This exactly illustrates my point. These are both obverse 6 yours and mine the standard obverse 6. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see these are completely Different obverses
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theunsla's Avatar
South Africa
112 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2018  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add theunsla to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a million for the comprehensive answer, Mr T and zookeeperz!
Valued Member
United Kingdom
190 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2018  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pwa 1967 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1862 OBV dies are in Gouby as D,E and J......Gouby J being the standard Freeman OBV 6
Due to millions being stuck the theory is changes were made in his words "using up old OBV dies.

So yes you will see differences although these are much scarcer.
Edited by pwa 1967
10/16/2018 12:10 pm
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Mr T's Avatar
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2018  07:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know that it's a different obverse die - the differences could be down to strike and die wear (I think the bottom serif on the B of BRITT is probably filled on the coin on the left). I'm not sure if multiple mints struck pennies in 1862 but Heaton may have made small adjustments to the die if they produced 1862 pennies though.
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zookeeperz's Avatar
United Kingdom
695 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2018  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zookeeperz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't understand how you cannot see the obverses on these coins are different. The left hand obverse resembles the obverse 2 Die with the large open eye. The eyelids are C shaped On my coin the eyelids are V shaped all the colons on mine are lozenge shaped not circular as on the left coin. Those differences cannot be down to strike or wear.
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Mr T's Avatar
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2018  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hm, you're right. The nose looks different too.
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