What Are The Characteristics Of A Late Die State Coin? Any Impact On Value?

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Sharkman Valued Member United States 456 Posts	Posted 10/23/2018 3:07 pm I have never really paid attention to die states. I have seen coins with multiple obvious die cracks and others where the cracks are only noticeable after being identified. I have always assumed that they were evidence of deteriorating dies, or late die stages. Conversely, I have understood that newer dies yield sharper strike most of the time. I know many collectors relish die varieties and cracks, but my buying habits have been to ignore a small number of unobtrusive cracks if the coin is otherwise very attractive. I have always avoided prominent cracks. Which brings me to the reason for my question: I have been looking with interest at an 1845 S. L. dime with a TPG of ms64..it appears to have die cracks but I don't find them distracting. But the coin somehow looks different. The obverse stars are well struck. The letters and numbers in the legend and date look "fat." Yet they are sharp. The leaves on the reverse wreath look broader. The word liberty on the shield is indecipherable from some angles but clearly visible from others. The shield itself is sharply struck at the top, but lhe shield lines are not visible at the bottom and look like they have been physically worn down. High spots on the obverse look almost burnished. Liberty herself looks almost hazy or blurred. I wish I could post pictures, but I don't think I can do so on my iPad ( my only computer) and wouldn't know how to plug them into this post anyway. If you are interested in taking a look, it is easily found on ebay. You will also see color variations suggesting a toned over dipping that the TPG still must have found to be "commercially acceptable." So, why don't I just take a pass on this one and find another? I am not sure I can find another that is better. This coin is quite rare in mint state. PCGS estimates only 100 mint state examples still exist. And, I must admit I find rarity pretty sexy. For that reason, I have decided to get a " with stars" example for my type set from the 1840s rather than a readily available example from the 1850s. So, getting back to the point, are the characteristics I have described characteristic of the beginning of late die state? Or does it just sound like an unevenly struck coin with significant weak points? If this is a late die stage coin, would that effect either it's value or it's desirability to purchasers? Report this Post to the Staff

Ballyhoo Pillar of the Community United States 1613 Posts	Posted 10/23/2018 5:53 pm Not sure if I saw the one you mention. Only two in MS64, one NGC the other PCGS. Based on some of your description, fat letters/numbers, the date could be from a worn punch used to imprint it on the die, which is done separately before striking. An old punch on a new die? It may explain the fat date. I any event, both are nice coins. Especially the PCGS listed for $900. $1200 is a bit high for the other. By the way, I'm attempting to complete this very series in uncertified, with the key dates. About a third there. So I am very familiar with them. Die varieties do tend to bring a premium, but like yourself I tend to steer clear unless it's a comparative look to the others I have. ANA member - PAN Member - BCCS Member There are no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon Report this Post to the Staff
Sharkman Valued Member United States 456 Posts	Posted 10/23/2018 7:34 pm Ballyhoo I have been looking at the one you like. I'd like to see if anyone else cares to comment before making a decision. I am looking at three different coins in the same price range and can only buy one now. The other two are very attractive to me, but are easily found even in high mint state. I don't want to miss an infrequent opportunity to buy an exceptionally rare coin, but I certainly don't want to buy a "bad" coin, at least for the grade, that I will later regret. I am impressed with your progress on the dime set. Happy hunting as you complete it. I have a special fondness for S.L. dimes. Back when I was a young collector with no money, I liked them because they were really old and didn't cost very much in the low grades I was buying. Back in about 1970, I even bought an 1839-o for $1. It remained my oldest coin until six months ago. If you are not already a member, you might want to check out the Liberty Seated Collectors Club. I really enjoy my membership, and it is almost (but not quite) free. The LSCC is worth googling. Report this Post to the Staff
chesterb Pillar of the Community United States 1261 Posts	Posted 10/23/2018 8:44 pm I'm a member of the LSCC myself. Based on your description, it sounds like a weak strike. I would research the variety and compare it to others before purchasing to make sure it's a higher end example. Report this Post to the Staff
SilverDollar2017 Pillar of the Community United States 8715 Posts	Posted 10/25/2018 10:00 pm Generally, it depends on the person who is purchasing the coin whether a late die reduces the value. In my case, I don't think that - in fact, I often like interesting die cracks, an example being Randall Hoard large cents. But of course, I'm sure there are some folks who think that die cracks detract from the eye appeal - really, it's just up to the person buying the coin. Report this Post to the Staff
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