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1888-S Morgan - Counterfeit

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Pillar of the Community

United States
834 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  5:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jeffbuckes to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
1888-S Morgan - counterfeit

Ordered this bad boy on-line a few months ago. A few days later I checked the website for shipping details and saw the origin label: China. I knew it was a fake right then and there so I demanded a refund and reported the seller. Got my refund and the seller told me to keep the "coin."

I'm posting these photos for our mutual education.

The "coin" is non-magnetic. I didn't weigh it but it feels wrong; it's not steel or silver, I can't quite place the metal. Also looks like a cast mark on the obverse in the hair, an extra fleck of metal?

Do your eagle eyes see any other obvious flaws?

(BTW: I couldn't post this to the counterfeit section so I put it here.)


1888-S-Morgan---Counterfeit
1888-S-Morgan---Counterfeit
1888-S-Morgan---Counterfeit
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  5:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pretty bad, glad it worked out well for you. Great reference pics.
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SilverDollar2017's Avatar
United States
8715 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Details and lettering/date mushy. Counterfeit.
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see some raised dots and other irregularities in the fields (right above Liberty's cap is one such spot) that are giveaways to the coin's being a phony. That reeding is pretty awful, too.

Colligo ergo sum
Pillar of the Community
United States
834 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jeffbuckes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I see some kind of pitting above the cap - like the metal didn't quite fill the mold when it was cast?

Also, the fine scratch lines in the field looks like they tried too hard to age the thing?
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36558 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anything sold out of China avoid! Color and mushy details are the first clue. That reeding on the edge is terrible.
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fortcollins's Avatar
United States
3625 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for posting this. It helps to see real world examples of what is coming from China. The design and processing leave a lot to be desired (look at the two stars adjacent to the "E" of EPU), but I'll bet the weight and specific gravity aren't too far off.

Specific gravity of 19th Century U.S. 90% silver coins should be within a standard deviation of 10.25 (roughly between 10.16 and 10.34). This can be emulated with Ag plating over a core of approximately 87% Pb and 13% Sn. I'll bet that's pretty close to what lies in the core of this coin.

There are three nondestructive tests that can be performed:

1. The "ping" test. Balance this coin on one finger and gently "ping" it with a known genuine 90% silver coin. Then do the same by pinging one known genuine 90% silver coin with another known genuine 90% silver coin. The resonant frequency will be sharply different.

2. Use an eddy current brake slide. Silver, copper, and aluminum react the same, by generating an electrical field ahead of the sliding coin, slowing the coin as it descends the slide. (This is Lenz's Law, used for electromagnetic brakes on trains, for example.)

3. Specific gravity test.
Edited by fortcollins
11/24/2018 6:30 pm
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Jon Brand's Avatar
United States
1023 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon Brand to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The S looks big to me. Also agree that the date lettering isn't clean.
Pillar of the Community
United States
834 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  10:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jeffbuckes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the feedback. Now that you mention it - I'm sure this thing is lead and tin. That would explain the dull feeling I get when I rub it between my fingers. Like I said, as soon as I saw the origin on the shipping site I knew it was counterfeit! Two weeks later I got the package and had no doubt.

FYI: I bought it on Amazon.com ... It was listed as a genuine Morgan silver dollar (all false). I knew that Amazon would refund my money if it were "too good to be true" so I took a chance and ordered it sight unseen (the ad just said I would get a coin like the one pictured so I thought maybe they had as bag of culls or something.). After I got the "coin" I reported the listing as fraudulent and the "coin" as counterfeit. It took a few weeks but Amazon eventually delisted the seller and refunded my money. And now I have a new paperweight.
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