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1852 One Penny Token ?

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
1222 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2018  1:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Here's a 1852 One Penny Token that I've marked as a PC-6B2.
It has the medal axis indicating The Royal Mint and weighs 16.00 grams which is slightly on the heavy side.
If I've been advised correctly it's Courteau Var. #244.
Can anyone tell me the rarity number for this one?

Cheers, Bill

1852-One-Penny-Token-?
1852-One-Penny-Token-?
Pillar of the Community
Phil310's Avatar
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2018  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In Courteau's book 244 is listed as a R-6.

Nice looking token Bill!
Bedrock of the Community
Dorado's Avatar
Canada
24885 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2018  11:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dorado to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice token!
Pillar of the Community
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scopru's Avatar
United States
5029 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2018  07:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice looking token
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1222 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2018  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all for the info and comments.
I bought this one just to have a problem free example not knowing the rarity or variety.

Cheers, Bill
Valued Member
Canada
221 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2018  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ainsivalavie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here's a 1852 One Penny Token that I've marked as a PC-6B2.
It has the medal axis indicating The Royal Mint and weighs 16.00 grams which is slightly on the heavy side.
If I've been advised correctly it's Courteau Var. #244.
Can anyone tell me the rarity number for this one?

Nice token...

Indeed, 16.00 grams is in the upper limit, since according to my research, the average for the 1 Penny 1852 is around 15.65g, with variations generally ranging between 14.90g and 16.10g.

For the level of rarity, Courteau gives a rarity index of 6 out of 10. However, according to my research, this variety seems to be a little more frequent, since at the moment out of few hundred tokens listed from 1 Penny 1852, it appears about 4.7% of the time.

You may have noticed the particularity of this variety with a repunch of the letter "baNk" on the reverse side.
I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect... I'm learning a little more every day.
Edited by ainsivalavie
11/30/2018 7:37 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2020  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I concur with Courteau variety 244, to wit: my cut-and paste.


244 R-6 Medal Die Axis. Large 2.

The author finds this variety rarer than the rarity factor indicates.

Note - This variety is also found in PROOF. The author has a NGC PF 64 ensample.


Obverse Characteristics:

Four lines are below the Man's right Arm.
The Mantle is incomplete.
The Man's left Foot is Perfect.
Two Knobs are to the Dagger Hilt.
Two Reins are to the Bridle.
The Belly of the Horse is re-cut.
The left Arm of the Dragon is connected.
The F in OF is re-cut.

The numeral 2 is large.

The numeral 2 is slightly nearer the numeral 5 than is variety 243.

The top of the numeral 2 is noticeably higher than the top of the numeral 5.

The left-end of the numeral 2 is on-line with the left-section of the 2nd Denticle to the immediate right of the numeral 5.
Note - Doctor Courteau identifies this as 'left-side,' but this is actually to the left-section of a Denticle.

An imaginary line from the right-side extremities of the numeral 2 (the upper right corner of the vertical of the base, and the apogee), extends to the left-side of the Stand of the initial R in the abbreviation below the ground.

The lines below the Man's right Arm are somewhat flattened.

The Legend is Perfect.

The 6th and 7th Mantle Folds overlap.

Die-Clash Marks are above lower Back of the Horse.
Two arcing lines are above the Horse, betwixt the Dagger and the Man's Rump. At present, the author is unable to ascertain the reverse design elements mimicked.


From perfect and broken dies.

A Die-Crack is to the O in OF.
This heavy Die-Crack is from atop the centre of the Denticle, to the immediate left of the O in OF, extending through the left-side of the same letter, and forking. The primary branch is heavy and continues through the upper section of the 5th Mantle Fold and exits to the Wrist of the Man.

The left branch is weak, and extends through the Stands of the ANK in BANK.


Latter Die-States shew the Die-Crack continuing through the left-side of the ground and exiting to the upper corner of the left Lobe of the left Rosette.

A Die-Crack is through UPPER.
This Die-Crack is from the mid-section of the face of the vertical of the Serif of the F in OF, extending through the mid-section of the left upright of the U in UPPER, continuing through the bottoms of the same letter and the P in the same word, continuing from the mid-section of the curve of the same P, to the mid-section of the upright of the 2nd P in the same word, and through the bottoms of the PER and C in CANADA.

A Die-Crack is betwixt the D and A in CANADA.
This globular Die-Crack is from the centre of the Denticle, betwixt the D and 2nd A in CANADA, extending through the tips of the Claws of the Paw of the right Forearm of the Dragon, and exiting across the Cheek of the Dragon. A large central blob-line mass is situated atop the section of the Die-Crack betwixt the same letters.

And extension of the Die-Crack extending from the mid-section of the right-side of the right Leg of the A in CANADA, extending through the end of the right ground, and exiting to the upper right corner of the right Lobe of the right Rosette.

Reverse Characteristics:

The N in BANK is defective.
The right-side of the lower half of the right-side of the right Upright is heavily double-cut. Double-cutting is also present on the upper-side of the diagonal.

Two Grass Blades shew.

The lower Grass Blade is well struck, of normal size, and fully attached to the apex of the large fruit. The lower Grass Blade exhibits a slight Arc, and is situated basically horizontally. The upper Grass Blade weakly struck, shorter, distanced from, yet parallel to the lower Grass Blade.

The Anchor Ring is Perfect.

6 ½ well spaced, nearly-uniform Dots comprise the section of the Anchor Rope betwixt the underside of the right-side of the Anchor Arm and the underside of the Anchor Shaft. The ½ Dot is attached to the Anchor Shaft.

From perfect and broken dies.

A Die-Crack to the T in TOKEN.
This Die-Crack is from the right section of the Denticle above the Upright of the T in TOKEN, extending through the left Arm of the same letter, slightly to the right of the left-side of the same Upright, and extending to the mid-section of the left-side of the same Upright. Within the Upright, the Die-Crack forks. The left branch emerges from the Base of the same letter (slightly to the right of the left-side of the Upright) and extends to the upper slope of the upper right corner Jewel of the Crown. The right branch exits the lower right corner of the Stand of the same letter and extends diagonally to the edge of the Shield (on-line with the left-side of the O in TOKEN).

Terminal Die-States shew this Die-Crack continuing through the Shield (higher grade ensamples are required to ascertain the exit of the Die-Crack), the Die-Crack picks up again joining the bottoms of the EN in TOKEN, exiting the Base of the right Upright of the same N, and continuing through both right-side Grass Blades of the right Cornucopia, and continuing to the upper ornamental band of the same Cornucopia, then disappearing, and exiting the bottom of the 3rd diagonal band (to the left) of the lower section of the same Cornucopia, passing through the mid-section of the Handle of the left Cornucopia and the bottom of the Handle of the right Cornucopia, and through the top of the E in ONE and exiting to the mid-section of the right Upright of the N in the same word.

A Die-Crack to the left Cornucopia.
This long, straight Die-Crack is from the lower section of the Upright of the K in BANK, extending through the field, exiting to the upper left-side Stem of the left Cornucopia.



Thus:
244 Perfect - no Die-Cracks.
244A A Die-Crack is to the O in OF.
Die-Crack as above, plus a Die-Crack is to the T in TOKEN.
244B Die-Cracks as above, plus a Die-Crack is betwixt the D and A in CANADA.
244C Die-Cracks as above, plus a Die-Crack is to the left Cornucopia.
244D Die-Cracks as above, plus a Die-Crack is through UPPER.

This is the Die-Crack progression.

enjoy

doug.
Valued Member
Canada
221 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2020  09:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ainsivalavie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Colonialtokens:
I concur with Courteau variety 244, to wit: my cut-and paste.


244 R-6 Medal Die Axis. Large 2.

The author finds this variety rarer than the rarity factor indicates.

Note - This variety is also found in PROOF. The author has a NGC PF 64 ensample.

@Colonialtokens: I'm glad you're back on the forum.

Otherwise, that's "strange", because I've come to the opposite conclusion. Thus, with about 4000 tokens identified over the last 2-3 years, including nearly 400 One Penny 1852 (excluding Proof/Specimen), the variety Courteau #244 stands out in about 3.9% of the cases (As of today's date), which according to my statistics is equivalent to a rarity factor similar to "4".

In addition, out of 17 Royal Mint 1 Penny 1852 "Proof" tokens that I was able to analyze, in more than 75% of the cases it is the variety Courteau #244.


Note: Sorry if I make mistakes with my English.
I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect... I'm learning a little more every day.
Edited by ainsivalavie
02/15/2020 10:22 am
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