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For A Good Time About A TPG I Never Heard Of Before, Read This!

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 Posted 02/18/2019  1:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello all

So, I come across this listing on the bay, a 1907 $20 gold piece...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223384690635

Was I surprised... a "proof like" version. hmmm, my Krause or other books never mentioned this grage, I had not seen it before for this coin. So I look at who did the grading and slabbing... National Nuismatic Certification (NNC). Never heard of them before.

I take a closer look at the coin... nice and shiny, perhaps a little too shiny. I don't like what I see what appears to be staining or peeling in the area around the date. So I googled NNC and this is one of the things I found, a ripoff report about the company or owner or somebody there.

It is very entertaining. It starts out kinda almost nasty, then decends into name calling, insults, accusations that NNC certifies fakes, damaged coins, dips (without disclosing such), copies, plated. Accusations of a lawsuit against ebay by them, of dipping the coins, being a backyard single grader who allegedly rips off coin people by the boatload. take a look...

https://www.ripoffreport.com/report...m-the-468650

It was funny for me bc once I had too much to drink once and made a poor decision to post a nastygram to someone on this board. I got banned and deserved it. My first indication that I had been banned is that I could not log onto my account and a message popped up from an administer which said "ENJOY YOUR VACATION!" I thought it was apporopriate and from then on its been nothing but "no sir and yes mam" from me. I learned my lesson.

But boy, the way that these guys go after each other about NNC is just too funny and would never fly here.

mike
Edited by 4504
02/18/2019 1:40 pm
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nss-52's Avatar
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 Posted 02/18/2019  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Isn't it nice to not have to read nasty comments on everything (like some other boards, youtube, disqus, etc.)?
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 Posted 02/18/2019  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By no means am I defending NNC, but dipping is not an issue and shouldn't be mentioned as one
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 Posted 02/19/2019  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry basebal21, I did not mean to infer that, I was just referring to dipping because it was in the complaint. I have heard, however, that if one of the real TPG detects or suspects a dipping, on the label it will show it as an "cleaned" coin (improperly or otherwise), but I could be wrong on that. no offence. as a matter of fact, I highly suspect if you do send in a coin to the NGC conservation service, dipping is possibly the first thing that they do, but I do not know that for a fact, but, if true, since you paid the big bucks to use their conservation service they will not refer on the coin label that it is a "cleaned" coin. Or maybe NGC does not consider or mention on the label that a dipping as a "cleaned" coin at all because, as you say, it is not an issue and I have no reason to question that. However this is all just one big guess from me on all of that, I was basically quoting some of the stuff in the complaint... mike
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 Posted 02/20/2019  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have heard, however, that if one of the real TPG detects or suspects a dipping, on the label it will show it as an "cleaned" coin (improperly or otherwise), but I could be wrong on that. no offence. as a matter of fact,


There's a lot of misinformation about dipping. That is only true if they messed it up or it was a bad candidate in the first place. A properly dipped coin looks mint fresh. It has been a well accepted practice for coins since before the TPGs existed.


Quote:
I highly suspect if you do send in a coin to the NGC conservation service, dipping is possibly the first thing that they do, but I do not know that for a fact, but, if true, since you paid the big bucks to use their conservation service they will not refer on the coin label that it is a "cleaned" coin.


NGC or PCGS when it comes to conservation will evaluate the coin and determine what they think is the best method in each case, but yes dipping is one of the methods that they do use.
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 Posted 02/20/2019  2:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There's a lot of misinformation about dipping. That is only true if they messed it up or it was a bad candidate in the first place. A properly dipped coin looks mint fresh. It has been a well accepted practice for coins since before the TPGs existed.
I agree.

However, it must be said that dipping is an art and a science. It is most definitely in the category of activities prefaced with the warning "These are trained professionals, do not try this at home!" That is, you need to really, really, really know what you are doing before attempting it on something of significant value.
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 Posted 02/20/2019  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I agree.

However, it must be said that dipping is an art and a science. It is most definitely in the category of activities prefaced with the warning "These are trained professionals, do not try this at home!" That is, you need to really, really, really know what you are doing before attempting it on something of significant value.


Absolutely, I would even take that a step further and say that applies to any sort of conservation method
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 Posted 02/27/2019  7:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just had a 1959 1.7gram 22k gold medal sent in to NCS. It showed signs of dirt and I could not stand it, and after reading about all the horror stories about home-dipping (using wrong stuff, leaving it in the solution too long, if done incorrectly may "wash out" the coin, etc.), I figured that this was one of those cases of "better safe than sorry". I will let you know how it all came out. Thanks for the informative replies.

Mike
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4504's Avatar
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 Posted 02/27/2019  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is one of my rare cases that I am learning the first time. Usually I have to make a mistake at least once or twice before I learn my lesson. However, when it comes to coins, I like to take no chances, even to the point of being overly-caution. PCGS also has a conservation program similar to NCS, but PCGS does not farm the coin out to a company-related service like NCS, who, in the cases that they consider the coin a candidate for conservation, PCGS does not imply that another company or service like NCS will do the conservation, PCGS simply says that they will do it. I have also heard of cases of coins being sent in to t.p.g. companies for just grading sometimes contact the owner before they do and tell you that in their opinion the coin would benefit from a conservation before it is graded. About a year ago I sent in a 2012 gold proof coin which looked perfect to me, altho it had to be somewhat circulated around between the original owner and seller at the least, and it came back as a 70. You could have knocked me and my local coin shop over with a feather seeing that. Rarely do I have that kind of luck with coins. As a matter of fact, I am convinced that NGC under-graded one of my coins, it was graded as a 67 and I had been convinced that it was a 68 at the least and should be a 69. Oh well, sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.

Speaking of which, there was two guys out camping when an aggressive grizzly bear came along. It was obvious the bear was going to attack. One of the guys started taking off his shoes. His frightened companion asked him "why are you doing that... do you think you can outrun a grizzly bear? His buddy replied "No... I only have to outrun YOU".

crickets.
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 Posted 02/27/2019  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add llewellin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It has been a well accepted practice for coins since before the TPGs existed.


At one point in time before the TPGs existed, polishing and lacquering coins was also a well accepted practice. In time I believe we will look back on dipping as a destructive practice and lament the majority of MS coins that have been damaged by it. Similar to how an original SLD is so rare that TPGs even ignore improper cleaning for the series. But when white is considered better than originality this is what happens and you can't undo a dip.
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