Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsJoin Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Septimius Severus Denarius - Authenticity Check

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 2,051Next Topic  
Valued Member
NorthSideTy's Avatar
Canada
204 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2019  12:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add NorthSideTy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all,

I received this denarius in a large lot from a reputable dealer. For some reason the obverse legend looks a bit too perfect and the coin itself is perfectly centered (maybe a red flag?). No sign of casting bubbles and the outer "beads" show some evidence of striking. I'm not liking the metal build-up on the emperors cape on the reverse. It just seems off and I'm having a hard time finding a match with the fake coin reports.

The specs seem right?....

3.07g - Weight seems fine
19mm

If anybody is noticing something I'm not seeing please let me know. I want to make sure before I list it in my ebay store.

thanks for your help.


Septimius-Severus-Denarius---Authenticity-Check
Septimius-Severus-Denarius---Authenticity-Check
Septimius-Severus-Denarius---Authenticity-Check
Pillar of the Community
Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2019  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
obverse legend looks a bit too perfect and the coin itself is perfectly centered (maybe a red flag?)


Fields are quite flat too - perhaps pressed/machine struck? Perhaps your coin is fine, NST...but I share some concerns.

I know the obverse doesn't match the condemned coin at the link below (assuming that link works), but the reverse seems very close (allowing for differences in the perspective of your photo with the linked one). I note the similar lettering/spacing and, particularly, the pattern of the dots in the border above the "VIIC" at the top. Think the reverse is a match?

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.asp...VWVJDFpWMGQ=


Edit: I just looked at the RIC 231 on the Septimius Severus page at Wildwinds, and I note a similar reverse. Assuming that coin at WW is legit and the one at ForgeryNetwork is indeed fake, it could be that modern dies were created from a kosher specimen - perhaps through spark or chemical erosion, accounting for the match.

So it may well be that my comment above, about the possible reverse match to a fake, may not be conclusive of anything. Still, the flat fields do give me some pause. The Roman experts here will, I'm sure, have more meaningful contributions.
Edited by Kamnaskires
03/03/2019 12:58 pm
Pillar of the Community
Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2019  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The obverse does have rather a "modern" look to it. I went down more or less the same road as Bob L. It does seem to correspond to RIC 231.

For comparison, here's Wildwinds' image of the type:

Septimius-Severus-Denarius---Authenticity-Check

I can't confidently make a call one way or the other.

Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
03/03/2019 1:21 pm
Valued Member
NorthSideTy's Avatar
Canada
204 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2019  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NorthSideTy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the response Bob!

I completely agree with your comment, especially the fields being too flat! the link you provided is quiteeee similar..

I can't believe I didn't notice it was a match with RIC231 nor did I include the reference in my initial post, I do apologize! I must of looked at the picture from RIC 231 50 times hahaha
Valued Member
NorthSideTy's Avatar
Canada
204 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2019  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NorthSideTy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Lucky Cuss for the response!

I do feel the same way. I Cant believe I didn't notice the reverse match to RIC 231 lol
Pillar of the Community
Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2019  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its got 'the look' of a modern fake, a common finish that brings out the details and appears on many forgeries (and legitimate 'reproductions'!), but seems to never appear on unquestionably ancient pieces. That gut feeling you have about it was right on the money, in my opinion - one for the black cabinet.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1120 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2019  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add travelcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Its got 'the look' of a modern fake, a common finish
Moderator
Learn More...
echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2019  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree with the comments above, not a genuine coin.
Pillar of the Community
maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2019  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse die occurs in silver and gold and has been noted as being used in fakes since the 1970s.

Septimius-Severus-Denarius---Authenticity-Check
Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2019  05:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I get the feeling the "authors" of these forgeries are taunting us with their talent
But the details are too splendid and the surfaces too fresh not to be suspicious
But what can be written in prose can also be styled in crude limericks
Its become difficult not to have doubts about all but the surest finds
Like the fellow who after he sold me around 75 tetrarchy folles and finished off by trying to sell me the bronze pot he found them in ! Of those my doubts are none !
But healthy skepticism is an essential part of collecting today
The term "rare" being the reddest flag of all to me
  Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 2,051Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.3 seconds to rattle this change. Forums