8 Reales 1780 Unlisted

Thank you for the posting, always fun to look at these coins.
It would be really nice if you could provide edge photos and SG reading. Aside from the horrible surfaces and being underweight, what exactly makes you think this could be a class one? Looks more like what Bob calls a "Bullion fake", made after the fact for trade in the Orient or to fool people who wanted to trade in the orient. It also looks like a land burial coin and that could account for the poor surfaces. Waiting on the SG report, that will be a telling piece of information.

Albert The weight combined with the wear level is for me too low to be genuine. The edge design is very poorly preserved but it looks like spacings and shapes vary. So on that basis I would assign the coin to Class 2 as jgenn and jfransch suggested. There is little to no chance it is a true Class 1 which by definition has an assay BELOW 800 fine.

The SG you report equates to 870 fine and places it near the range to be a Class 2 type from England made between 1820 and 1835. They issued 850 fine or better copies in that period (the target was set above 850 but exactly what it was I have not yet discovered). In 1835 the English formerly complained to the Chinese officials about 800 fine or less copies being returned to them as payments from the merchants in Canton.

The English had historically made better than 850 fine but lower than 900 fine copies (1820 - 1835) because that was the limit for SG testing with scales that were commonly current at that time. (See Riddell's book for even primitive testing suggested by the US mint which was far less accurate).

The English had adopted SG testing earlier than 1835 to avoid Chinese counterfeits made near Canton that were 800 fine or less. However in 1835 the Chinese did not test SG. The English introduced SG testing to the Chinese in 1835 and the Chinese Schroffs used that method after 1835. The Egnlish copies being at least 850 could not be detected.

Now the best way to tell if the coin is English or not is to check gold and lead content in the coin using XRF. English silver was recovered as a by-product of lead mining - there will be detectable traces of lead in silver from England and Europe. It was not possible to remove all of the lead from silver in England and Europe until 1850. Gold traces will be found in Mexican or US silver and will be present until about 1890.

So if you find gold you have an early US copy or a Mexican copy made for the China Trade before 1890.

If you find lead it will most likely be English made before 1850.

No Gold or lead will be most likely US after 1890.

Now if you happen to detect arsenic - let me know that means a different source of silver and a rather rare one in Class 2 types.

What you definitely do not want to find EVER is Cadmium.

As Class 2 of any age I put the value on a par with a genuine coin in the IDENTICAL condition. If you would pay $143 for a genuine 1780 Mo FF in this grade then the price is right.

The edge-pits (on the 4th and 6th edge scan) suggest a cast in my opinion.