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1868 Two Cent Copper

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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2019  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most likely a counterfeit. The Date area looks wrong, I've never seen a six that resembles that coin. Clearer photos and an accurate weight are needed. The reverse does follow the look of an original coin, the easy to see markers are not on this coin, though the Chinese have gotten a lot better lately, not good for us at all.

The other items this seller has available are mostly copper rounds and other suspect items in the coin section, his main sales items do not suggest he is a coin dealer. His items are all Chinese crap, so that is not a good sign. He has sold at least two other lots of coins, some large cents in cull condition, and a roll of 1940's wheaties, again not normal stuff from someone selling coins on a regular basis.

While I can't rule this coin is a definite counterfeit, I'd bet it is. Looking forward to more information and clear photos once it is in the OPs hand.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2019  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There are lg. & sm. motto varieties for this date. Maybe w/the date, as well.


Looks like there's a misplaced date variety also.


The Large and Small Motto is only on the 1864 dated Two Cent Piece, no other dates have the small motto.

There are several mis placed date varieties of Two Cent Pieces, but that is not an issue with this coin.

I would like to see close up clear photos of the rim and the denticles as well, when numismatic student gets the coin in hand.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
05/09/2019 7:55 pm
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2019  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One last comment until we hear from numismatic student after he gets the coin in hand. Is the No-No site where replicas are sold from China, is the reviews on the counterfeit Two Cent Pieces are mostly from an individual in the USA with initials GR - I find it a stretch yet plausible that the seller of this coin in question has the ebay name starting with a G and ending with a R, a coincidence? Probably, but ? maybe telling. The No-No site shows he purchased 6-1865, 6-1868, and at least a dozen full date sets at different times over the past few years. The later dates in these sets are laughable in detail and quality, no way they might be construed as real. The early dates of 1864 through 1869 aren't so bad, and could probably fool quite a few coin collectors that have limited knowledge or experience with genuine Two Cent Pieces.

Okay that's my 2 cents
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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52Raymo's Avatar
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8516 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2019  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Westcoin, love your knowledge of the series.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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numismatic student's Avatar
United States
11891 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2019  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. Should have it in hand Saturday. Will post photos of all 3 sides.
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numismatic student's Avatar
United States
11891 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2019  02:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one came in. Looks like full luster on both sides which was surprising. I looked closely at the area near the "2" in the reverse and it doesn't look like a scratch but rather discoloration due to less than perfect blending in the metal alloy. Was trying to get more detailed pictures with the loupe but not much success. The edge is plain as would be expected. Thoughts? Thanks!

1868-Two-Cent-Copper
1868-Two-Cent-Copper
1868-Two-Cent-Copper
1868-Two-Cent-Copper
Edited by numismatic student
05/12/2019 02:42 am
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jimbucks's Avatar
United States
4692 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2019  02:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's see what westcoin thinks. Please post a weight. BTW, your pics of the edge are crappy.
Edit - Really crappy! :)
Edited by jimbucks
05/12/2019 02:50 am
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numismatic student's Avatar
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11891 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2019  03:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have a really accurate scale that measures to the hundredth of a gram, mine just rounds to the nearest gram. Mine shows 6 grams. Real coin should be 6.22 grams so it looks like it is showing the correct weight at this level of precision.

1868-Two-Cent-Copper

Here's my second crappy attempt to capture the plain edge. It just looks plain.

1868-Two-Cent-Copper

The coin also exhibits some purple toning along the edges, but try as I might I cannot capture it on my phone.

1868-Two-Cent-Copper
1868-Two-Cent-Copper
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numismatic student's Avatar
United States
11891 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2019  05:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is interesting that under "31 U.S. Code §5113. Tolerances and testing of coins" the legal tolerance of 1 cent coins is given at a target weight of 3.11 grams with a tolerance of + or - 0.13 gram. It follows logically that for 2 cent coppers which have a target weight of 6.22 grams, the legal tolerance would be + or - 0.26 gram. That would be between 5.96 and 6.48 grams for 2 cent coins.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5113
Edited by numismatic student
05/12/2019 05:33 am
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52Raymo's Avatar
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8516 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2019  10:34 am  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can buy scales on ebay for next to nothing.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2019  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I see nothing other than the date that is saying it's nothing other than a normal Two Cent Piece, I can't get over the date at all, I took some time over the weekend to compare it to my photos of 1868's and my reference books, I can't find a single coin that has the look of this date, something that keeps popping up on each check I make, close but no dice. The 1 is almost always perfectly straight on the bottom serif, the 8
s have less roundness to them, the centers of the loops don't conform to any others, the 6 is really close to some, but the loop at the top of the 6 isn't quite correct.

I really can't say positively, but I believe it to be a counterfeit. I'm going to put out a request to a friend to look at this thread and I'll report back after hearing from him on it.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
05/13/2019 6:50 pm
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52Raymo's Avatar
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8516 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2019  6:14 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only coin I can match it to is the no no site coin. Same looking date, same blemishes.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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ty88ty2's Avatar
United States
772 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2019  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ty88ty2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First looking at this coin, the date just rings red flags everywhere. I don't know exactly what it is, but my gut says its wrong. The date also looks much more crisp than the rest of the details, which look hazy. I'm leaning counterfeit personally.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2019  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Word is in from two other experts, they both say a modern counterfeit as well.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2019  7:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is like a numismatic novel. Can't wait for the next chapter. This coin would have fooled me.
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