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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,409 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3237 Posts |
I'm fairly new to the hobby, but after sorting through a couple thousand dollars of quarters in the last month (and a decent number of pennies), I've noticed that I don't ever seem to find even the most minor doubled die varieties in the lettering of the coin, but have found a good handful of minor DDs in the images themselves (all state/national park quarter reverses). Have I just been unlucky looking for DDs in the lettering? Am I likely overlooking minor DDs due to the coins being circulated and not looking like the online images? Or is it just that the DDs I've found happen to be particularly common ones (so far I've found a few Homesteads, two Wyomings, and a Minnesota, all of which I know have at least 60+ DDR varieties each)? I'm really curious if people with more experience can speak to what they tend to see. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
On the States and ATB Quarters the doubling is found more often in the center of the coins designs. Obverse earlobes:  On the reverse of the coin the central area is affected.  So the best thing to do is to check out Wexlers pages on these series to see what to look for on these. That will help a lot: (Here is his index for doubled dies on U.S. coins) http://doubleddie.com/228401.htmlThat will help you a lot. So far I've only seen two dies for doubled dies that are not in these areas. (Just two so far) But the central areas is where to look for these doubled dies on these two series. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74679 Posts |
The new single squeeze presses allow Doubled Dies to happen in the center of the design most of the time. There's only a small percentage of Doubled Dies that happen on the lettering, on the newer Quarters.
Errers and Varietys.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
I edited images and placed them on a proof coin to make what one States DDO looked that that all the other DDO's of the States series does not look like on this series:  A closer view of the devices:  1999-S Proof quarter DDO-001 PA On the ATB Quarters the obverse that is different from all the others:  2018-P WDDO-001 quarter MI ATB. That is the only area affected on this die that I know of from John Wexler's images. All the rest are only on the earlobe. Why? Evidently they noticed something was incorrect with the process of the hub, back it off and started over. This isn't supposed to happen, but it looks like it did a couple of times on these series. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3237 Posts |
Hey errers, that's really interesting. Would you mid elaborating a little on how the single squeeze presses are made that makes this more likely?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
This is a link from John Wexler's site on the Class 1-8 doubled dies. http://doubleddie.com/58222.htmlIt also touches on the single squeeze process. Note the subheading "Single squeeze die era". It explains the process a bit more. On these single squeeze dies there is a Class 9 doubled die. The hub noise John mentions on this article, is when the hub is not in the correct spot, but snaps into the correct alighment. There may have been a kiss of the hub on the die, but when it snaps into place, the blank is re-hubbed. This changes all the rest of the coin, but the central area may have a partial area where the first kiss happened that does get removed. Thus the bar cants:  These are an example of how the Memorial cents had a doubled die in the center part of the die. He calls it:  Hope this helps some as to why just the central parts of the designs are affected with a doubled die? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
More food for thought. One thing history has shown. If its known to exist in the past, then it remains a potential or repeatable action that can be replicated in the future. I would not limit or base my examination to a central location based solely on percentages. Thanks, Doug. http://doubleddie.com/58222.htmlQuote:
Because of how these doubled dies are being produced, the affected area tends to be the center of the die. That is due to the fact that the point of the conical top of the die blank is the first contact point with the hub and it usually doesn't take very long into the hubbing for the hub to snap or move into a more proper vertical alignment. While the entire obverse and reverse should always be examined carefully, the most likely place to find doubling on dies produced on the single-squeeze hubbing presses is at the center of the die (coin).
On October 1, 2009 I had the privilege of having a telephone conversation with George Shue, Senior Advisor in Manufacturing at the U.S. Mint. During this conversation the 2009-D Washington D.C. quarter with a major doubled die reverse came up. Mr. Shue noted that the Mint was aware of this doubled die error and how it occurred. This particular doubled die resulted when a hubbing press operator stopped one of the single-squeeze hubbing presses to realign the hub and die and then restarted the hubbing sequence. In the process a rotational misalignment of images resulted. Mr. Shue further noted that the Mint was able to reproduce the error in a test to see what caused the doubled image originally.
The conversation further revealed that the Mint was aware that even though it was contrary to policy, hubbing press operators were taking it upon themselves to sometimes stop the single-squeeze hubbing presses before the hubbing was completed to make adjustments, and then restarting the press to complete the hubbing. To prevent doubled dies like the major variety seen on the 2009-D Washington D.C. quarter from happening again, the Mint has installed "locks" on the hubbing presses. Now if a hubbing press operator stops the press before the hubbing is completed, they will be unable to restart the press until a supervisor comes to inspect everything to make sure that things are reset properly. The supervisor will then "unlock" the press so that the hubbing can be completed. So for now doubled dies continue to be produced despite Mint efforts to eliminate the die variety. Edited by Halo1st
06/01/2019 12:38 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
When they get the laser tech to create dies, that will probably remove this issue from happening. I say probably because who knows what we will find then? Wait and see what the next chapter tells us. The single squeeze was supposed to remove the hub doubling issue. When the change over started, we all thought that it had happen. Until 2004n then the mask was pulled off with the 2004 DDO nickel. I didn't find the exact first text: But one explaning the find a few days later. I edited it to fit on the forum:  Seems like yesterday to me. I encouraged him to get as many rolls as possible, he tried, but that was the only one in his area. So it must have moved into his area.Edited by coop
05/31/2019 9:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
Quote:
When they get the laser tech to create dies, that will probably remove this issue from happening. Potential Class-X LDD - "Laser Die Doubling"? Guess I'll start looking into electron microscopes in preparation. Thanks, Doug. |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,409 |
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Posted 05/30/2019 6:48 pm
