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When Is A Fouree Not A Fouree In History?

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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2019  8:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
OK here are a couple links for a Severus Alexander and my coin is pictured. As the years get more recent you see this and coins are not called fourees by dealers. Traveling mint etc who knows but no one seems sure. So not all apparently plated bronzes are fouree and it depends on the emperor if there were "official" or "semi official" coins that look like this? My coin is 20 mm, and 3.03 grams. And that is not my tag, it is the old estate tags as I only do auctions not fixed prices.
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=243542
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=243551
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=243543

When-Is-A-Fouree-Not-A-Fouree-In-History?
When-Is-A-Fouree-Not-A-Fouree-In-History?
When-Is-A-Fouree-Not-A-Fouree-In-History?
When-Is-A-Fouree-Not-A-Fouree-In-History?
Edited by louisvillekyshop
07/02/2019 8:40 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2019  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The official denarii of Severus Alexander are minted from an alloy containing less than 50% silver. Hoard coins often develop deposits (copper salts?) on their surface from long contact with other coins. As a chemist, you probably understand this process better than I. A fourree, on the other hand, will corrode from the inside out. Counterfeits of the period are sometimes fourrees and sometimes base alloy casts (so-called 'limes denarii'). It can be difficult to distinguish a genuine coin from a fourree or from a base metal cast. This was true in antiquity just as it is today, to the delight of the counterfeiters. Fourrees are usually unmasked only when the corroding copper core blisters through the silver plate. At a glance, I am not certain whether the linked coins are genuine denarii with surface deposits or fourrees but I lean toward the former. The German term for fourree is "subaerat" and I don't see it used in the Rauch listings.
Edited by Kushanshah
07/03/2019 02:22 am
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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  06:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kushanshah:

Thanks so much for your reply! It is very informative as to how such a process can occur. Now when I say, "When is a fouree not a fouree in history" here is how I see it: You just can't see a coin looking anything like this in the Republic era and say that is not a fouree denarius. That whole 50% composition is not an issue. So as I go through coins in life and come across these, is there an emperor in which you can start considering the competing way this much of a bronze showing can occur? Like an Augustus denarius you don't consider this etc. Is there an emperor in which there is a cutoff and Rome was changing the composition so much we do see coins like this that are not fouree? Thanks!
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chafemasterj's Avatar
United States
6514 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  07:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chafemasterj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check out my counterstamped Lincoln Cent collection:
http://goccf.com/t/303507
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 Posted 07/03/2019  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to see a photo of the op coin with less depth of field, so that the entire coin is in sharp focus. This can be done by increasing the f-stop (or digital equivalent).

Debasement of the silver was a gradual process. A google search will turn up charts showing fineness at various times. If I remember correctly, from about Septimius Severus onward, the "silver" coins are technically billon.
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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As for the camera, I have to admit, a great many years ago I just turned it to the little flower (so not the mountain) icon which I assumed gave me the best closeup shots. And I never touched it since. So the fact I am speaking in terms of little camera icons vs depth of field or f-stop means I probably should explore learning about how to photograph these coins better!
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