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 Replies: 49 / Views: 7,925 |
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Valued Member
United States
65 Posts |
I've been back collecting US Braided Hair Large Cents since about 2015, after about a 15 year layoff due to personal and global economics. Since then I first decided to just collect 1852 varieties, as I felt trying to collect the entire US Braided Hair series was virtually an impossibility because some varieties are so rare, and also because my own budget just does not allow for such a collection. So I tried to collect anything EF45 and better, that was at least of average strike and average eye appeal. But I found that even this moderate goal was basically not a reality, mostly because my own economic situation still hadn't been completely resolved. But I wanted to continue collecting what I call my addiction. So I started just looking for anything that met my own view of what is average or better, with good eye appeal, and branched out into the entire series. Since then I have accumulated a fairly nice set of about 30 coins ranging from EF45 to MS66. The MS66 was so gorgeous, I just could not resist. But now, I am back to trying to figure out where the 1852 Variety Newcomb 10 is. It is a rarity 1 on a scale of 1 being the most common, to 8 the most rare. Rarity 8 usually means there are less than 3 or less coins lknown to exist. My study of the 1852 Newcomb 10 seems to indicate that most know coins are considered scudzy to average condition. Scudzy means that if you just have to have it, then get it as a temporary filler, as looks just terrible. Normal usually means that the coins looks fairly nice without magnification, but does show some large marks and rim dings. The next level I call Choice, which basically means it has superb eye appeal, trivial marks on the coin, and very good colour. But It seems that anything greater than EF45 is basically in the rarity 4-5 range. What I mean is that there aren't many of them available, or should be available, based on the current condition census. I've been lokoking since 2015, and have never seen one listed anywhere on the internet. It's as if they do not exist. It is possible that for the most part, that those in lower grades have never been attributed, and that those in EF45 and higher are in collections, but you would think that at least one would come to market during these 4 years of looking. I've seen great rarities come to the market more often than I have this particular variety. If anyone has any insight into just where the 1852 Newcomb 10 is, I surely would love to hear from you. The way it is, I am thinking of writing a paper on just how odd this is, and publishing it in "Penny-Wise". Maybe someone who has a lot more knowledge than I have can answer this puzzling question. The MS66 coin, I post a pic just so you can drool.   |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I very much enjoyed your presentation. Your 66 is a definite drooler. Many fields seem to have the impossible common problem. While I'm not an expert on BHC I have found enough to know the rarity values seem to need a serious updating.
In more than one instance for areas I do have better knowledge about, I belief some of the ratings assignment were wrong from the start. Everyone makes mistakes and incorrect editing has also caused inaccuracies. The fun is to solve the puzzle. Ill be stopping back to see what the experts might advise.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Yes, very interesting background, and a beautiful coin for sure.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
789 Posts |
So you are saying that since 2015, you have not seen an 1852 N10 at all, not even in the annual EAC auction?
What variety is your MS 66 specimen? I'm too lazy to attribute it myself.
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Valued Member
 United States
65 Posts |
The variety is a Newcomb 8, which is considered a hoard variety, as there are a lot of these MS66 graded coins, as well as plenty in other MS grades. I checked four of the EAC Auction catalogues from 2001, 2002, 2017 and 2018, and nothing. Since I have a couple of other auction catalogues, I did more checking. The auction in 2001 of the J>R. Frankenfield Collection listed one, anMS63 specimen, Rarity-2, listed as tied for the third finest known. I need to see if I can access other auctions that have free access online to the lists, and hopefully results. The only detractor for the 1852 N-8 posted is the nick on the nose. But is is fairly minor compared so some I have seen on other coins. I think that since Grellman did his detailed study of rarity levels for US Large Cents, things have changed, but not much. I do believe that Grellman listed coins according to the EAC grading standard, versus the current standard that everyone else goes by. If my 1852 is graded according to EAC standards, it probably would be a 63, possibly 64 for the Obverse. The whole thing with EAC grading standards is that they grade the obverse and reverse separately, then the lower grade is the overall grade. At least I believe that is how it is done, as I do not own a copy of the EAC Grading Standards rules. Maybe that is another thing I need in my library. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
I looked at my 1852 to see what I have. Apparently I couldn't ID it at the time. Here it is: PCGS AU-58 CAC   |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
So what Newcomb number is this?
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Valued Member
United States
65 Posts |
This is also a Newcomb 8. Note the extremely faint die crack running from the point on the coronet to between stars five and six to the dentils. There is also a faint lint between B and E in Liberty. One the reverse there is one faint doe at the end of the center crossbar in cent. This is a very nice AU-58. The only detractors I can see are some minor dings on the obverse and reverse, nothing to worry about. I am guessing this might be an EAC AU55/55
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Valued Member
United States
65 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1026 Posts |
The EAC is a vast wealth of information.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Great write-up. I have 8 different 1852's but none is an N-10. I think submitting an article to PW would be worth your time. Both the posted coins make me jealous, by the way. As to grading for the 2nd one since someone brought it up I'd say TPG AU58 is on the money, EAC 50/45. LDS with misaligned die strike weakness @ K12 obv/opposite rev., moderate flowlining and some die pitting. Couple of light spots obv, nicks left of face and right of S10; light caramel brown with a trace of mint red underneath the hair bun. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Valued Member
United States
65 Posts |
paralyse, You're probbly correctt about the reverse grade. It does have a bit more problems than the obverse, but this coin is still very nice. You're eyes are a lot better than mine when it comes to looking at photos. It took what you mentioned for me to see just what you are talking about. Probably why I gave the reverse the initial 50.
Yes, I need to sit down and write a coherent article about the 1852 N-10. Hopefully those who read P-W, and have tons more knowledge about the subject will be able to explain why it is so difficult to find one of these critters.
As for 1852, you got 8, and I have that many also. It's difficult finding choice coins. I go as much as six months before finding one of any year that is within my own purchasing power. I over did it with the N-8, and now am penniless for the next six months. Sigh! But enough on the N-8. Hopefully someone else will know something about the elusive N-10
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
I know nothing about Newcomb varieties, so please excuse my ignorance if the answer to the following question is common knowledge among large cent collectors. Why not just look at the PCGS and NGC population reports to get the relative rarity of each variety? Of course I'm assuming that they attribute each variety.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
I've written the publisher, and asked to be put on their list for when the publication is ready for sale. It was published back in 2014, is sold out, and is now out of print. There are a few supply or book dealers than might have a copy, but in general that book is already getting hard to find. Did some checking and couldn't find a copy for sale online. Dan Holmes had two 52 N-10's in his sale, a MS-64 and a MS-65. |
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Valued Member
United States
65 Posts |
Unfortunately, Third Party Grading Services do not attribute a coin, unless asked and paid to do so. This is one reason why most collectors should not rely on these Services to provide an accurate population. There are a lot of RAW coins out.
Thanks for the Auction report o the two N-10's. I believe that generally a collector buys more than on of a variety because they are either collecting die states, or that they found an unusual specimen. Wish I had the money to do that kind of collecting.
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Valued Member
United States
65 Posts |
Kanga, I believe I was trying to see things that were not there on your coin, and it seems I attributed it incorrectly. I now think it is an N-16. N-16 and N-8 shared the same reverse die. That means they both that the same double dots at the end of the center bar on the "E" of CENT.
I took your photos and transferred them to my computer so I could magnify them. I could not see the die cracks that are present in the N-8 variety. Nor were the lines between "B" and "E" in LIBERTY there. What I see looks somewhat like a line, but I doubt it is part of the minting process. What I do see is a line between the "R" and "T" in LIBERTY, which is found on the N-16. Also, Paralyse, noted that the reverse had rust pits. This is a feature of the N-16, and if there are low spots on the Obverse in early die states, which seems to be the case with your coin. I think that it is a late early die state. Those rust dots on the reverse are also an indication of an early die state.
Sorry for the mistake. These old eyes do not see that well any more.
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Replies: 49 / Views: 7,925 |
Posted 08/03/2019 5:44 pm
