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Please Educate Me On Billon! They All Look Different!

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Valued Member

United Kingdom
106 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2019  7:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add FuzzyDuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have been looking at Billon coins and they all look so different, some are obviously silvered, but others just look like copper coins but stated as 'Billon'
Is there a way you can identify them as silvered/solid silver?
Similarly I've seen others I would assume are solid silver with no signs of a copper base (that I can see) but listed as Billon.
Any advice and bits I could learn from you would be greatly appreciated. I won't pretend to know much on the subject, so won't be offended if you treat me like a school boy &
As always, many thanks in advance for any help given!!
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34428 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2019  7:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@fd, here is the definition from the CCF glossary. This should get you started:


Quote:
Billon
An alloy of very low, and often indeterminate, silver content. Billon usually has a silver fineness of less than .500 fine. Thus, US "wartime nickels" (.350 fine) can be said to be made of billon. Many German and Dutch predecimal coins are made of billon, as were ancient Roman coins of the late Empire.



Added:

With respect to your statement:


Quote:
so won't be offended if you treat me like a school boy


The Ancients and Medievals Forum on CCF is my primary hangout, but I would hope that you are treated with respect and patience no matter where on CCF you are.


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
08/05/2019 7:24 pm
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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2019  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with the above definition of billion.

You may have misunderstood the very similar looking bullion, which is almost all silver, gold, platinum, or other precious metals.

Bullion is available from Government mints, private mints with both rounds (like a Coin but with no face value) and bars being the primary types.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2019  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also agree with Dave's definition.
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7960 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2019  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I cannot comment on ancient coins made of billon, because my collection is mostly medieval to early modern (12th to 18th century).

Based on the eras I collect, the short answer is that you cannot tell from the appearance. I have billon coins which look "silver" and I have silver coins with deep patinas that look dark gray suggesting billon. I have coins that are nearly black except from the high points, that are made from either. I think you can only tell from a reference book or having the coin tested.
It's too late for photography but I realize I could show a set of coins minted in the same place and at the same time (450 years ago) which range from under 40% silver to 87.5% ... and there is no way to tell composition from appearance. I only know because of a reference book.

Edited by tdziemia
08/05/2019 9:16 pm
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Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2019  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In your defence, numismatists are pretty fickle in their terminology. Antoninianii from the time of Valerian until Allectus can range from maybe as high as 30-40% all the way down to the last issues of Tetricus and his son, which are under 2% fine. Technically they are all billon, as none of them are over .500. Likewise, (almost?) none are "AE" since they all have an intentional, controlled silver content. Yet you will often see coins from this period listed as any of the three (AR, BI, AE), especially the ones that are "silvered".

Realistically, all three are acceptable, as long as you don't use AR to describe a coin that doesn't have any visible silver content!

What does get me is that some people feel the need to describe anything that isn't classical Greek or Roman as billon... that is particularly prevalent with my poor Gadhaiya, which are generally well over 80% fine!
Please-Educate-Me-On-Billon!-They-All-Look-Different!
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Seeker55's Avatar
United States
635 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2019  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Check Seeker55's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many ancient and medieval Indian coins have been made in billon, and the compositions vary greatly. Some have a higher silver content and look silvery while many have low silver content and look like bronze or copper.
Edited by Seeker55
08/06/2019 09:35 am
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United States
1120 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2019  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add travelcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Realistically, all three are acceptable ...
I agree, in fact, I rarely (if ever) use the Billon lablel on my ancients. Some reason I'm not comfortable with that term.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
106 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2019  12:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FuzzyDuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for everyone's input, helps me get a little closer to understaning what I find a confusing area of coin collecting with so many abbreviations and different terms!
What book would you suggest for me to pick up on this subject?
Thanks again
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16852 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2019  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For a general book on coin terminology, I can recommend Richard Doty's "Encyclopedic Dictionary of Numismatics".

As to the specific term "billon", its use does seem to be bound more by the traditions of whatever series is being discussed, rather than any strict adherence to scientific delimitations. For example, I've never heard anyone call any Mexican coin "billon", even thought here are Mexican "silver" coins with a fineness of 0.100.

Part of the reason why "billon" can look so different is that, while silver is a small component of the composition, the other components are largely unknown, and can vary over time and from place to place. Romano-Egyptian tetradrachms, for example, are made of "billon", but the secondary components could be a mixture of copper, tin, lead and even iron. This of course will lead to differences in appearance, especially once the coins are buried, dug up again and cleaned.

A common treatment for certain series of billon coins, such as the post-Aurelian Roman antoninianii, was to make the coins appear more silvery than they actually were, by "pickling" the blanks in acid prior to being struck. The acid attacks the copper and other alloys on the surface, but leaves the silver alone, leaving a silver "sponge" that, when struck as a coin, compresses and flattens down into a thin layer of silver on the coin's surface. This method was still being used into th 20th century in some coinages (such as Australina silve coins post-1947), as it results in coins that "look good silver" when freshly struck, but such a layer is not stable long-term, either in circulation or after burial and during cleaning.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16852 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2019  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And on the subject of billon, one of the series that has always fascinated me is the coins of the Sultanate of Delhi, which considered "billon" to be a "fourth coinage metal", with many sultans issuing simultaneous coinages in all four metals: bronze, billon, silver and gold. In most other coinage series, billon was used instead of fine silver, not in addition to it.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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