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Need A French Speaking Person To Help Stop Auction Lots.

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  09:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
http://www.swappy.com/fr/lives/auct...per_page=200
This auction is loaded with counterfeit coins. Any one care to help me stop these lots?
Mike Marshall
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You will need some independent professional corroboration to support your allegation, before being able to make such a move to close an auction down.

Much easier to stop lone traders on ebay, but even action in this area can sometimes be difficult.

CAVEAT EMPTOR still applies.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The law is clear in Canada. Auctioneer admits they are counterfeit. ebay is easy.
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Keith67's Avatar
United States
6579 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Keith67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure what you see as counterfeit. I know nothing about Canadian coins. But they clearly list the counterfeit coins as counterfeit
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is illegal to sell counterfeit coins. Period.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
450 Every person is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 14 years who, without lawful justification or excuse,

(a) buys, receives or offers to buy or receive counterfeit money;

(b) has in their custody or possession counterfeit money; or

(c) introduces counterfeit money into Canada.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 450 2018, c. 29, s. 55
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Which coins are counterfeit?

Edit; I see them now they're all worn too
Edited by Alan
09/29/2019 10:36 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Offence Wording

Making

449. Every one who makes or begins to make counterfeit money is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 407.


- CCC

Possession, etc., of counterfeit money

450 Every person is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 14 years who, without lawful justification or excuse,

(a) buys, receives or offers to buy or receive counterfeit money;
(b) has in their custody or possession counterfeit money; or
(c) introduces counterfeit money into Canada.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 450; 2018, c. 29, s. 55.


- http://canlii.ca/t/7vf2#sec450 CCC]

Uttering, etc., counterfeit money

452 Every person is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 14 years who, without lawful justification or excuse,

(a) utters or offers to utter counterfeit money or uses counterfeit money as if it were genuine, or
(b) exports, sends or takes counterfeit money out of Canada.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 452; 2018, c. 29, s. 57.


- CCC

Proof of the Offence

Proving making counterfeit money under s. 449 should include:

#9744; identity of accused as culprit
#9744; date and time of incident
#9744; jurisdiction (incl. region and province)
#9744; the culprit made or began to make counterfeit money
#9744; the culprit knew the money was counterfeit

Proving possession counterfeit money under s. 450 should include:

#9744; identity of accused as culprit
#9744; date and time of incident
#9744; jurisdiction (incl. region and province)
#9744; Either:
#9744; buys, receives or offers to buy or receive counterfeit
#9744; possesses counterfeit or
#9744; brings counterfeit money into the country
#9744; the culprit knew the money was counterfeit



Proving uttering counterfeit money under s. 452 should include:

#9744; identity of accused as culprit
#9744; date and time of incident
#9744; jurisdiction (incl. region and province)
#9744; Either:
#9744; uses counterfeit as real money
#9744; export, send, or take counterfeit out of the country
#9744; the culprit knew the money was counterfeit

Interpretation of the Offence

A lack of intention to spend the money is not a defence.[1]

An intention "not intend to use [coins] as currency" but rather to "hold" coins "for the purpose of selling them as numismatic curiosities" is not a valid defence.[2]

It is a defence to raise a doubt that the accused knew of the "counterfeit nature" of the money.

"lawful justification" or "excuse"

It is not a defence to the offence to establish a lack of intent to use the money to purchase anything.[4] The intention to sell a counterfeit coin "as numismatic curiosities" is not an excuse for the offence.[5]

Constitutionality

The reverse onus found in s. 450, 451, 452, and 454 do not violate s. 11(d) of the Charter.[6]

R v Duane, 1984 ABCA 115 (CanLII), per Kerans JA, at para 4 ("mere lack of intention not to use it as currency does not legitimate possession of counterfeit money.")
R v Robinson, [1974] SCR 573, 1973 CanLII 22 (SCC), per Ritchie J
R v Burge, 1986 CanLII 806 (BC CA), per Carrothers JA, at para 9
Template:Duane
Robinson v R, [1974] SCR 573, 1973 CanLII 22 (SCC)
Burge, ibid.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look under "Interpretation of the Offense" rather on point do you not think?
Pillar of the Community
silverwolf's Avatar
Canada
3733 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
what can we do to help?
Pillar of the Community
silverwolf's Avatar
Canada
3733 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coins are also listed on icollector

https://www.icollector.com/Seminary...n_as60655_p7
Pillar of the Community
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Keith67's Avatar
United States
6579 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2019  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Keith67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
[quoteEvery one who, with intent to defraud, knowingly utters][/quote]
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