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1913 D Type 1 Buffalo Indian Nickel. Toned. Gawk. Grade.

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BuyGuns's Avatar
United States
335 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  02:00 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Well...I acquired this good looking Cheif, and did not expect it to be this handsome. I liked the Red's I saw, but it is multi colored in hand. Far better than expected. Strike is marginal, but luster changes iridescent colors dramatically. Eye candy as some of you say. AT, Fake, Cleaned, or whatever, I don't care. lol This is a keeper. But if graded, what do you think?

As a side note...at the bottom (not much better than other pics), I added a few pictures of the "Of America" on the reverse. Not sure what happened? Late Die state had a rough day? Buffalo drop kicked the letters? A rough hit somewhere in it's 100+ year history? But it's there for your viewing pleasure/comments.

1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.


HERE'S THE ROUGH LOOKING "OF AMERICA".


1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
Edited by BuyGuns
10/10/2019 03:16 am
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merclover's Avatar
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 Posted 10/10/2019  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting.
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BuyGuns's Avatar
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335 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  03:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey merc. Responded to your 'cleaned' potential on that 1914 Buffalo. More like a novel. Haha But good observation. May be the plastic showing scratches in the light. Forgot it was still in holder. Will remove to verify.

For this 1913 D buffalo? Yes...an interesting fella. But pretty.
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Spence's Avatar
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34397 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  04:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bg, it looks to me like the die used to strike this coin was starting to wear out and this caused the striations surrounding AMERICA and EPU.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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BuyGuns's Avatar
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335 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  04:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Spence. Yea. I believe that more now. Was going with the Buffalo drop kick theory, but opted for the Die theory instead. lol I looked at it with a microscope @100x, and it clearly looks like a part of the coin. A real Die mess really. There is added metal, meaning, when struck, the planchet spread in odd places. Some letters were denied some metal while others have more than usual. All smoothed over with no indications of a post mint hit from normal circulation. I can take pictures of the microscope shots and post later. Easier to see what I am saying then. I mean it literally looks like the Die shattered or splintered in that area. The 'I' looks like a split fork. The 'A' is missing a part of one leg and the other is long and curved, and branches out to a three prong tail. lol It's crazy.

But you would think there would be other examples like it. Maybe there are. Or maybe the mint personnel caught it quick. Got rid of bad strikes they could find, and this one slipped by. Who knows. Nothing special. Just a weird look. If graded I imagine the TPG will attribute it to a mint issue and no effect on grade. Maybe.

But the toning is crazy. That's why I got it. Overall a nice coin. In my halogen light it is a looker. Colors radiate out in all directions with the luster cartwheeling. Very cool.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 10/10/2019  04:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bg, yes for sure the toning is pretty sweet.

If you use the CCF search box (in the upper left hand corner of your screen) with the keywords VLDS and BUFFALO, you can find previous posts with other coins for comparison to yours.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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BuyGuns's Avatar
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335 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  06:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Spence. OK Will do.
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BuyGuns's Avatar
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 Posted 10/10/2019  06:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK...so I think the mystery is solved. See pictures below of three PCGS graded 1913 D Type 1 Buffalo's. Definitely a Die dying a slow death in 1913. See same issues as the one I posted. The worse condition one (like mine or worse), is a MS67. Go figure. Sold on Heritage @ $1560.00.

Note also the same weak Buffalo head fur weakness.

And the split starting in the 'I' of America, as Die getting worse.

Curved tail on the 'A' in America.

Here's the pics:

EXAMPLE #1 (Die showing signs of same flaw starting)

1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.

EXAMPLE #2 (Die getting worse)

1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.

EXAMPLE #3 (MS67 $1560.00). Entire 2 O'clock to 4 O'clock position of Die seems to be on last leg.

1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
1913-D-Type-1-Buffalo-Indian-Nickel.--Toned.--Gawk.--Grade.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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 Posted 10/10/2019  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would grade yours at MS-64.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  08:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VLDS, beautiful coin, agree 64.
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BuyGuns's Avatar
United States
335 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Question to all...does the grading industry take into consideration the Die State when a coin was struck? Meaning they grade from a baseline of that particular Die? This coin here I posted as an example...will they consider say an MDS Die that may have struck it (worn will specific wear patterns from that Die), as opposed to an EDS struck coin (Die is near perfect, so coin must be perfect)?

Or does it matter at all. Meaning, regardless of initial strike quality, all coins will be judged on condition as is? This is excluding the identified Die error coins of course. I am just referring to common business strikes for normal circulation.
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acloco's Avatar
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3540 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful toning.

I would nickname this Buff....."Sunset".

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BuyGuns's Avatar
United States
335 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@acloco Crazy thing is I name all my coins. Working on one for this. That may be it. When they go to PCGS, they all will be in flips and the white cards. On those white cards I have typed info about the coin, but I also have a "NAME: xxxxxx" spot. Lol. Yup. So names are a part of the deal. One of my buffalo's someone said it looks like war paint on the Chief's face. Well...that was that....."NAME: Warpaint" :-) So let me think on "Sunset". I do like it.

Just named one of my Morgan's "Scarface", because Liberty has a small but perfectly placed scar (scratch) on her cheek, and filled in by grime or toning I guess. Nice coin except that sticks out, but Scarface is perfect. Should give the TPG a chuckle...if they have a sense of humor. Lol. Anyway...
Edited by BuyGuns
10/10/2019 11:27 pm
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