| Author |
 Replies: 23 / Views: 5,429 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3646 Posts |
I have encountered quite a few counterfeit Newfoundland 50 Cent pieces over the years (mostly 1870, 1873, 1874, and 1885), but never before an 1880. I paused on this one, because it has some of the attributes of a counterfeit. That said, the reverse doesn't set off any alarm bells for me. I do not have this coin in hand, but saw it listed online. These are the seller's photos. If it is counterfeit, the photos would be worth noting for future reference. What does everyone think about this one? Here are the mug shots (not my photos).   I marked some of the concerns with the obverse. The surface is grainy and the color is off. The bridge of the nose is essentially missing between the nose and eye. There are gouges at the top of the neck. I've seen very similar to both of these before on known counterfeits. The second "I" in VICTORIA is much wider than normal at the base. The "E" in REGINA looks damaged, though the adjoining rim is undamaged. There are other concerns (the bottom of the first "D" in NEWFOUNDLAND and the lower lip, for example), but these are the most obvious. Here is an image, marked with my concerns:  |
|
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Any chance that you could get photos of the edge?
You have far more knowledgeable about this type than I do, but I really don't see any tell tale indications of a forgery.
There are only a few ways of attempting to imitate any coin from any period. I don't see this as bad.
The circulation wear is even for the grade and there are no areas that show unlikely circulation differentiation.
Also the toning is not at all typical applied toning usually seen on counterfeits.
Both of those are REALLY tough to fake.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5588 Posts |
Everything that you mentioned in your description of the Obverse details sounds just like a Mike Marshal session on fakes. From looking at it and attending 2 of his seminars, I would say that it's a Chinese fake. I'll email Mikey with a link to this thread (he's a friend).
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3646 Posts |
@moxking, I don't have this coin. I snagged the photos from the seller's listing, and enhanced them for clarity. I, too, would love to see the edge photos, but they aren't online.
I'm at *shrug* on this one. The undisputed counterfeits I've seen in hand are much more identifiable as counterfeits. I paused on this one, though, mostly because of the bridge of the nose. It has some of the look of a counterfeit, but I'm just not sure here.
It blows me away just how many of the Newfoundland coins have been counterfeited, including coins in the under-$10 range if genuine. (The ridiculous 1917-C Newfoundland one cent with the missing mint mark is my personal favorite. I see that one a couple times a year.)
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5588 Posts |
It is not illegal for the Chinese to fake coins .. they can be ordered by the hundreds .. for weddings, reunions, births, etc. It is when they are attempted to be sold on the secondary market that problems arise. Everything that I see on this coin says "fake"
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
I think it's OK, but I'm not an expert on the counterfeit markers.
|
|
Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
The bridge of the nose on a real 1880 tends to be quite weak, so on a worn coin, that might not be the best identifier. The reverse wear pattern also seems legit.
The fake 1880 from HK Replica has an opening at the top of the R in VICTORIA and the bottom of the last D in NEWFOUNDLAND, and the tip of the bust is far from the W of NEWFOUNDLAND. That does not mean this coin is real, it just means it is not from a well-documented counterfeit source for this date.
The middle serif on the E you have circled on REGINA is wrong... and concerns me the most. I can see why you hesitated.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
I think it just a well worn real example.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
851 Posts |
Having read the concerns and more importantly, having stated at Newfoundland coins for so long, I have to say I DO NOT think this is a fake. Dies wore down and strikes weakened. I see normal wear on the coin and no real reason to think this is a fake.
I will compare this to my 1880. Though mine is a better example, with less wear, it is still very similar. I'll have a closer look tonight and post again if I think differently.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
851 Posts |
That's 'stared', not stated lol
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5588 Posts |
Well, the king of the "fake" uncoveries (nickelsguy) has posted above his opinion that it's real. I have to eat my words again and maybe I'll have to listen more closely next time he gives one of his seminars.
I've been busy the last 3 hours eating crow.
Edited by okiecoiner
10/26/2019 05:35 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3646 Posts |
 Thank you all for looking at this one and bringing your expertise to the table. I never cease to be amazed by just how many of the HK fakes show up in estate sales and on the bourse floor at shows. This one didn't have that look, but had just enough of an "off" appearance to make me pause and ask. I know that many of you have been at the heart of the fight against the counterfeits for a long time. My heartfelt thanks to you for your efforts. Your work is not in vain! |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
851 Posts |
So here is mine. Mine is far from perfect but you can see that mine has less wear but many similarities. I still don't think the coin Posted is a fake.   |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
HK replica fake. The detached nose can be used only with other markers. Bill remember the 1859 cent with the die crack? Please note the very small/thin design on the rev. MM   |
|
Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
The top of the R in VICTORIA is an easy marker for this one.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
|
| |
Replies: 23 / Views: 5,429 |
Posted 10/23/2019 9:24 pm
