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Vindication... Finally.

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Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2019  12:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Those of you who have either read or followed my comments on this and other websites, this may be of interest to you. I would rather say no more than post these pictures unless somebody asks me. It all involves my authentication and information attempts for about 3 years now in researching this medal, which is a 1959 gold Venezuela proof Hitler medal minted in Germany.

This is about history and facts, not politics or hate. I fully acknowledge that Hitler was a monster beyond all comparison. I am no admirer of him but I do believe that eliminating or changing history of bad things in the past is the same as burying your head in the sand.

I will let the pictures do the talking for me. Aside from that, I have nothing more to say other than my many past comments. You will find my past comments on this and other websites on the internet, other than to say that this is the only 11.7 gram and quite frankly bizarre medal in the series that exists in the world. If you care to check, it falls somewhere in the Krause Venezuela X# MB series, but you will not find it there.

I will only repeat that this is the ONLY 11.7 gram 1959 Venezuela gold Hitler proof medal that has ever existed. There are NO others.

You may find this medal on the internet, they are images of it before it was sent in. These images may be identified by it being surrounded by a red ring in its case. There is also a rim image of it as well

This medal BARELY qualified to have even ANACS certify it. You may note that there are no defects or problems listed on the label as ANACS is required to do, and it has not been disqualified from being certified or graded by ANACS by their many reasons to NOT certify a coin or medal at all.


Thanks to all in the past who have supported me during my quest in the last 3 years my attempts to certify, authenticate and grade this medal... mike

Vindication...-Finally.

Vindication...-Finally.

and the following link may silence any doubting Thomases that remain. Just enter the certification number in the blank to see more details, as the direct link to the verification page does not seem to work. I will attempt to post a picture of it in the meantime.

https://www.anacs.com/(X(1)S(celmea...ication.aspx



Edited by 4504
12/24/2019 1:26 pm
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2019  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a post from a moderator with over 1,500 posts on another website on which I had inquired if anyone knew about the medal. I have omitted his name. Just a slice of the doubters and naysayers I had encountered, but it was not crushing to me nor did I believe it. So, it's an "obvious fake", eh? But he did have a good point about sending it to ANACS so that was helpful.

When I got into researching about sending the medal to ANACS, loose as they are, there was a rule that they would not certify a 1959 gold coin/medal like mine unless it was both proof and had cameo features.
1959 was the only year of the proofs, and instead of featuring the other 17 war leaders in the series, they only featured Hitler for 1959. Go figure. Here is what the guy wrote:


Posted: 9-Mar-2018, 07:47AM

My opinion - Obvious fake. For most of the reasons they mentioned on there. Easiest and cheapest way to deal with it is send it to ANACS or a big auction house and let them assess it.

The volume of the coin is far too large to weigh 11.7g if it's gold. Ergo, it physically cannot be gold.

The confusion lies in that you're adamant that it's 22 carat gold because you've had it tested using the latest equipment. What were the trace elements in your XRF result? What are the results of the conductivity test? What's the specific gravity?
New Member
stoystown_pa's Avatar
41 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2019  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoystown_pa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

Would you like to share how you acquired such a rare coin?


Regards
Pillar of the Community
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scopru's Avatar
United States
5029 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2019  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I will let the pictures do the talking for me. Aside from that, I have nothing more to say other than my many past comments.


Yet you didn't let the pictures do the talking. You are now quoting posts from March 2018 from some other forum. You have a certified item from ANACS. End of story in my book.
Edited by scopru
12/28/2019 09:33 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
541 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2019  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add retiredkper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin is not listed in the Standard Catalog of Unusual World Coins with the 1959 date for what ever that is worth. Since these coins were made in the name of Venezuela by an Italian Bank at a German mint anything is possible. I would not consider it likely that it is a fake. Since the original series of WWII Leaders coins were dated 1957 it could be that they thought they had a lot more interest in the Hitler themed coins and planned to run some more at a different size and then their plans proved to be wrong. When I was the new issues editor for Krause's I learned very quickly that no rules ever applied to NCLT producers and their private minters. You may have a rare coin here, but demand for it may be equally rare.
Edited by retiredkper
12/29/2019 6:19 pm
New Member
Jasian1001's Avatar
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2019  02:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jasian1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
as a Jew, I wanna point out how big his nose is on that coin
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2020  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
fun facts (?)

1. Hitler was always conscious of the appearance of his nose, considering it "Jewish looking".

2. He would not have any coins or metals made of his profile during the war years 1939-1945. He wanted to wait until he had "won" the war. So if you see any struck in Germany during those years, there is a better than fair chance that it is a fake.

3. I got it off ebay almost 3 years ago and have been researching it ever since, when I finally came to the conclusion that it may be the only one in existence. There is no known record of a 11.74 gram weight Hitler (or any other leader in any other year in the series for that matter), nor is there any known examples that omitted the gram weight in the spot reserved for it on the medal).

4. One of Venezuela's bragging points after WW2 is that they "took in less Nazis than any other South American country". ?

5. The minters started with 14 war leaders in 1957 and worked it up to 18 by 1958. In 1959, the mint struck only proofs and only Hitler was featured.

6. Researching this medal was not a fun experience every moment. I have been met with doubters, liars, good folks, people who had not one clue about the medals but just wanted to say something nasty or be negative, and a lot of support from some very fine folks. I am now convinced that no other series had so much mis-information, ommisions, mistakes, confusion and contradictions between dealers, auction houses, coin websites and others to include Krause. One of the most obvious sources was an auction house who was selling an example, yet corrected its own listing twice at the bottom of their page.

7. Realizing what a firestorm this may provoke, nobody can ever convince me that ANACS overgrades their coins or medals based on my example. Your experience may vary. This is not an unusual feeling to state the obvious. I personally feel that it is a fair grade... altho I think a 64 or even a 65 would have been more to my liking haha. I am considering a crossover to PCGS if they would accept it.

8. While technically a medal, the series is sometimes listed in coin catalogs, and are often (mistakenly) sold as coins. A simple check on ebay may reveal this. The value of these were determined by their bolivares values based upon gram weight stamped into the medal.

9. Venezuela did not put actual values on their coins until about 1961. Even Krause has a question mark in their "ND" designation about the Indian series that were running at roughly the same time period ending in 1961 The WW2 leaders series ran only in 1957, 1958, and 1959. There was a different obverse design for each year.

10. To make things really fun, a different mint and bank started to imitate this series... the WW2 leaders... at about the same time period. But they looked rather crude in comparison.

11. HA is considering accepting this metal for auction, however, they have a policy about banning listings with images of Hitler and the swastika, however, since this metal was minted in Germany some 14 years AFTER the 3rd Reich and not DURING it (1933-45), they are checking to see if an exception can be made. If not, there are plenty of other selling sites.... after all this time, there is no hurry.

12. scopu, I have not read your book. But your point leads to #13.

13. And that is all I got to say. If there is one thing I cannot stand, it is somebody who blabs on and on haha. You are fortunate. I could write a book about my researching experiences and I am sparing you from all the suffering and anquish. Thank all of you for your replies... Mike
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2020  08:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did you cross reference this with the Colbert-Hyderabad book? I think they list authentic Hitler medals in that book.

You will not be able to sell this medal on ebay. ebay forbids any depictions of Hitler on coins or medals.
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2020  09:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JGG, that is an excellent suggestion. The problem I have had is locating the book or catalog anywhere for sale. I did see an auction site (not ebay) that had the two catalogs or books, but it has long since been sold. But it seems to be the most definitive source, thank you.

I am not sure about ebay prohibiting such items tho, I got the medal a few years ago on ebay, and an ebay search of either "Hitler coins" or Hitler medal will reveal more than a few examples.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/24K-Gold-P...AOSw3pZbBsVq

But you would be correct in saying that several other auction sites, such as HA, does not allow Hitler Coins or medals showing the face of Hitler or the swastika, however, a in-depth look will reveal an example or two of the swastika being shown (it was very small so HA may have thought it was ok to sneak it thru).

However, in the meantime, auction sites such as Stacks does allow both images, in fact there seems to be somewhat of a market for them. ?

In any case, thank you for the reference, I just wish I could get my hands on a copy of these...

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthope...en-238926850

Thank you very much for your input. If anybody out there has a copy of either two of these books, I would be very interested, however, I am not holding my breath as the books seem to be as scarce or scarcer than the medal I hold.

thanks again... mike
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2020  8:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks JGG, I was able to fine just ONE example of the Colbert book... used, but still, good for my purposes, I was able to confirm with the seller that it included the 1959 example. I bought it. I do not intend to sell it on ebay, however, their policy on Nazi items symbols seems to allow coins, medals and stamps... for now.

again, thanks a bunch... you never know, all it takes is just ONE member here to provide a solution... mike
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