Thoughts On A Wexler's Jefferson Nickel Listing

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Author	Replies: 4 / Views: 931
Kawliga Valued Member United States 212 Posts	Posted 12/24/2019 11:40 pm Out of all the searching I've done over the past 14 months or so, I've found a few nice RPM's, oddball things like clashes, and a couple of doubled dies that were so minor I didn't even find them by spotting them in-hand and then verifying via the listings; just the opposite, I used the listings FIRST and could only verify what I had by using the markers (the doubling itself would require magnification beyond what I have) I have found only TWO fairly impressive doubled dies, in fact I noticed them both 'naked eye.' And guess what? They are both the SAME listing, ha! Jefferson nickel 2018P WDDR-005, the 'Tripled L.' I found them both in circulation, still have them. But I'm not here to brag (it must be a relatively common DD or one person wouldn't find two of them). What I'm here to ask is, is this really even a doubled die? Wexler's calls it a 'tilted hub doubling.' I know what hub doubling is, but I know I am way too much a newbie to call B.S. about anything in this hobby. I just wonder if anyone could explain the strange appearance here. At first glance, the two 'extra' vertical stems of the L look like tilted versions of the 'normal' one. But do they really? Look closely: the 'normal' one has really rounded corners, in fact the whole length of it is kinda roundish, like it has a bit of a belly. So why are the two tilted ones so straight and sharp-cornered? And why don't we also see two horizontal lines (the 'foot' of the letter L) also tilted, sticking out underneath the 'normal' horizontal one? Where are they? The more I look at this thing, the less it looks like a tripled 'L' and more like a couple of misplaced steps or something, just coincidentally beside/under the L. I know that sounds crazy, but crazy misplacements have happened to hub/die devices, things I never would guess are even possible. Here is Wexler's listing (actually Brians Variety Coins, on the Wexler website). https://www2.briansvarietycoins.com...gs/view/1639 Edited by Kawliga 12/24/2019 11:41 pm Report this Post to the Staff

John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 12/25/2019 05:01 am Don't know if this helps any, http://www.error-ref.com/?s=Class+V...Hub+Doubling John1 Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 12/25/2019 9:56 pm Keep in mind the single squeeze process. They are supposed to be hub just once, but the hub process doesn't always start out correct. Remember the information on these doubled dies, I always point out the doubled dies are on the center of the die. So when this die was hubbed, the hub was tilted and made a kiss mark on the die. So when the real strong pressure was applied to the die, the hub snapped back into the correct alignment. This time the die remove other evidence of this happening, except for the target areas of the center of the design. So it looks like this one made a kiss, then moved and left another mark and then fell into the correct alignment. First time I've seen a triple mark, but that is what John/Brian is saying about this doubled die. Just hubbed once, hub moved during the process and left the marks that you are seeing on the die. All the nickels struck with that die, will show this event happened on the die. Hope this helps. Report this Post to the Staff
Tanman2001 Pillar of the Community United States 4406 Posts	Posted 12/25/2019 11:28 pm I strongly disagree with the listing. It's just a group of unusual die gouges. The location of the "doubling", the shape of it, and the lack of any similar doubled dies makes me highly skeptical. And look at the repeating pattern of die gouges above the building, looks similar huh? And as you pointed out, it doesn't really match the shape of the L all too well. I have yet to see this type of small, isolated doubling (that is actually true doubling) so far from the center. Edited by Tanman2001 12/25/2019 11:29 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Oijogja Pillar of the Community United States 715 Posts	Posted 12/26/2019 04:31 am I think this is a very curious listing as well, thank you for bringing attention to it Kawliga. I'm in no position of authority to call foul here, but it does seem strange that this one particular L would be tripled with no other devices affected. It is hard for me to imagine how this lone aspect of a single letter would get tripled when higher relief devices nearby see ostensibly no effect. The angle and pivot the extra images imply seem to suggest the building would show some extra features, unless I'm mistaken. Thank you also Tanman for your explanation as to your doubts here. With respect, is this something that could be brought to Brian's attention, if only for him to provide his feedback in support of his attribution? Report this Post to the Staff
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