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Arrowheads Said To Be Roman 3RD To 4th Century Ad

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Novicius's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2019  7:27 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I hope this is not too off topic for inclusion.
Arrowheads-Said-To-Be-Roman-3RD-To-4th-Century-Ad
These were bought mainly on a whim some years ago, and were said to be Roman, from the 3rd and 4th century AD. I have not been able to find out if they are genuine or not, so hopefully will find out here. Though 1, 3, and 4 have tangs, 2, 5, and 6 have sockets. Number 2 was labelled "swallow tail". I brought them out after reading @Bob L's amazing thread on weaponry.

Any ideas? Thanks, Jim
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2019  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Neat group, Jim!

Well, none of these are types I am well versed in. I do strongly suspect, however, that the bronzes (and particularly 1, 2, and 6) are Chinese. Whether authentic or not, I cannot say.

3 and 4 appear to be iron. I have seen similar. Often type 4 is listed as Roman, 2nd to fifth century. Not sure about #3 - kind of reminds me of a Malloy 131, which is listed as Mongol, 1200-1400. But I really don't know. I do think these two iron specimens are likely legit.
Edited by Kamnaskires
12/28/2019 8:41 pm
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2019  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These are very interesting arrowheads. I wish I could help with the identification. This might help.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/n...20Arrowheads
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Novicius's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2019  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Bob L You hit the nail on the head there Bob. I did a Google picture search for Chinese bronze arrowheads, and there were a few arrowheads that matched the ones in the image I posted. Actually, the image I posted in this thread came up in the picture search as well. The Chinese did cast these types of arrowheads.

@echizento Thank you for the link. There is an impressive amount of information on ancient arrowheads there. I've placed the link in my attributions help file for future use.

Thank you both for the help, and the next time I see a "Roman" arrowhead for sale, I'll do a proper search first before thinking of buying it. This has galvanised me into the next stage of a Chinese project. Watch this space.

Jim
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 Posted 12/29/2019  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the lower strata of the antiquities market, almost everything is "Roman" because "Roman" sells. Unlike coins, utilitarian objects without context can defy classification. "Types" tend to spread across cultural boundaries. There are standard interpretations in the trade as reflected in Malloy's guide but in actual fact, projectile point types were not always exclusive to one culture or another. Archaeological context is the only objective measure and that is almost always lacking in the marketplace.

My favorite example is a box I picked through years ago at the Chicago International Coin Fair labeled "Roman Arrowheads From Pakistan"!
Edited by Kushanshah
12/29/2019 12:55 am
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 Posted 12/29/2019  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Kushanshah Indeed. At the time I bought these there were many arrowheads being sold as Roman, and I wonder how many (if any) were actually Roman? They were cheap to buy, and it was nice to think I had a little piece of history in my hand though. Thanks to this community, I am now getting a jumble of a collection into some kind of order.

"Roman Arrowheads From Pakistan" - You couldn't make this stuff up!

Jim
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/29/2019  08:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An interesting thread @novicius--I have enjoyed watching it evolve. I wonder if the Chinese fake their arrowheads with the same ardor and proficiency that they do their coins? It would seem to me that having a good breakdown of the trace elements in the alloy would be mandatory for objects like these. Or maybe I'm just paranoid...
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 12/29/2019  09:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think it is paranoia @Spence, as the Chinese are very clever at faking just about anything. I lived in Yantai in Shandong province for a few years and saw the scandal of the fake chicken eggs, which were cheaper to make than real chicken eggs were. At the other end of the scale I was offered a full set of brand new Calloway golf clubs, complete with bag, labels, in fact everything you would see on a brand new set, for £70.00!

An American friend wanted some key rings made, and told his contact that he couldn't sell them if they had made in China labels on them. The order arrived complete with made in USA marks and stickers!

A chap I knew, who had an antiques shop, showed me some coins and weaponry. Some of it was real, and some of it was fake. Due to his expertise he could spot the fakes straight away, but I could not tell the difference. There most likely are a large number of fake arrowheads doing the rounds as well. Here is a view of some of his stock, including old weaponry.
Arrowheads-Said-To-Be-Roman-3RD-To-4th-Century-Ad
My main regret was not visiting the Yantai museum, which I am told is one of the best.

Jim
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 Posted 12/29/2019  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The new project. On holiday in York many years ago I did all the tourist Roman trails etc. There were visits to quite a few antiques dealers too, but all I came away with was this Chinese crossbow bolt dated as 350 to 300 BC. A little while later I visited the British Museum in London, checked out their display of ancient Chinese crossbow bolts, and it matched exactly.
Arrowheads-Said-To-Be-Roman-3RD-To-4th-Century-Ad
I got a wooden box ready for the crossbow bolt, but now I know that some of the arrowheads appear to be Chinese as well they can go in with it.
Arrowheads-Said-To-Be-Roman-3RD-To-4th-Century-Ad
Can anyone suggest a material to support the bolt? I had thought of a perspex type material, but don't want to use anything that might react with the metal.

Thanks, Jim
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 12/29/2019  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Neat artifact, Jim. And the box looks like a good fit. That'll be a handsome display.
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 Posted 12/29/2019  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice Jim!....Really like the bolt..How long is it?

I have the opportunity to run a small expo in my local museum in the summer next year and have been picking up a few artifacts to show alongside my coins to give it a bit of depth. At the moment I'm concentrating on Roman Fibulae and have found it very addictive and interesting so good luck with your collecting.....Paul
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Novicius's Avatar
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 Posted 12/29/2019  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Bob L Thanks Bob. I found the box in a charity shop, looking a bit worse for wear. After a good sanding, a few coats of varnish, and a new lining, the box and the bolt looked like they were made for each other.

@Palouche Hi Paul, the bolt is 27.5 cm in total length. (10 ¾ inches)

Getting everything ready for the expo will be a very exciting project. There are some really lovely fibulae to be had at the moment, but they don't come cheap. Collecting is indeed addictive, and I hope your pocket does not get hit as hard as mine has just recently!
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 Posted 12/29/2019  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There are some really lovely fibulae to be had at the moment, but they don't come cheap.


Jim,

You might find this thread by Paul to be interesting - he posted it about a month before you joined up:

http://goccf.com/t/359831

And some others, a good deal older, that you might find interesting considering your topic:

http://goccf.com/t/332703

http://goccf.com/t/198163



Edited by Kamnaskires
12/29/2019 7:24 pm
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 Posted 12/30/2019  07:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the links Bob, there are some seriously tasty artefacts there.

Paul's thread has some beautiful fibulae, and in remarkable condition too. Your fibulae from the Chernyakhov culture are also amazingly well preserved. I agree with Paul, that the natural earthy colours are very appealing.

I love your thread on Parthian arrowheads, and the most interesting write-up. You must have a massive collection of coins and artefacts, how do you keep track of it all?

Your Artefacts/Antiquities thread is a great idea. Even though I'll never own anything like the items some members have posted, it is wonderful to see them.

I must go and dig out some of my own oddities now.

Jim
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