PCGS And CAC : Strange Bedfellows

@basebal21 Thank You!

Oriole, the plus grade is of dubious value when it isn't used as advertised. My specialty is Australian pre decimals and the number of plus grade silver coins in the XF and AU grades totals just 5 coins. Yep, of the thousands of silver XF-AU coins graded since they introduced the plus grades there should have been a certain percentage statistically speaking that were given a plus. That they (PCGS) have not done so is clearly a sign that they are not following their own publicized grading standards (and as they advertise in Australia they are in breech of the Trade Practices Act).
Even in the MS grades they still statistically speaking not giving many coins the plus grades, ergo they are mostly grading to the nearest whole grade and ignoring the halfway mark.
If CAC ever decided to grade Australian coins they would probably have a fit when they see how much coins vary within a single grade.

Basebal, why are you hitting your head against the wall for your incorrect statements?
If you are referring to my statements then you are clearly telling untruths.
1/ There are currently 5 XF-AU graded silver pre decimals with the + designation. If you dispute that FACT then either the current PCGS population report is wrong or you are.
2/ To quote PCGS in their advertisement about the + grade... "constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade"... Do you dispute this? I can for example give the figures for the 1953 Large Denticle florin (all graded since the + grade was introduced) where of 37 coins (all MS) just 2 have the + grade. Do you dispute that 2 in 37 is statistically less than 30%?
3/ I'm sure that you are familiar with the Trade Practices Act? To quote the ACCC "It is illegal for a business to engage in conduct that misleads or deceives or is likely to mislead or deceive consumers or other businesses." So how is advertising a grading standard (30%) but not following it not misleading?To be in breech of the Act doesn't even require intent or require damage/losses, but I'm sure those whose coins should have got the + grade have suffered a loss by being undergraded and those who purchase a coin that was rounded up above the plus grade have also suffered a loss by buying an overgraded coin.
4/ As for CAC ever grading Australian coins and having a fit, that is hardly hyperbole when you see some of the variation in grading in my reference collection (for example I have scores of '53 florins, both small and large varieties with a number of them in the wrong slab and a number clearly inferior or superior to others given the same grade).
Bottom line is PCGS shouldn't make claims that they can't keep; PCGS isn't the standard in the industry if CAC is the ultimate arbiter and CACs price guide is different to PCGS because PCGS coins that fail to make the CAC grade are inferior and worth less.

I actually understand grading quite well. Considering that I own about a thousand graded coins that are in slabs from PCGS (both California and HK graded), NGS, ANACS and another 6 companies (both small reputable TPGs and self slabbers) I do get to see the variances in grading.
I'm also well aware that CAC is unlikely to ever grade Australian coins, I'm only pointing out the issues that they would face sorting out the inconsistencies in PCGS grading. I'm not sure why you mention "cheap coins" in reference to what CAC doesn't want to grade, if t is a dig at Australian coins then obviously you don't know our coins as there are a number that sell at 5, 6 and 7 figures (US dollars).
Perhaps you are unaware but a large proportion of raw coins are submitted to PCGS HK branch with the intention of obtaining higher grades? A dealer that I regularly purchase from has told me of another dealer who takes his high value coins to Europe to get a walk through and usually gets a grade higher than if he sent to the US.
It also doesn't matter what I think or understand about PCGSs +grading, what does matter is what they advertise to the public. 30% is 30% and that is THEIR figure that they advertise with and coins of any grade can have eye appeal. So you cannot weasel out from the fact that PCGS has engaged in misleading or deceptive conduct.
You claim that I'm ruining your advertorial threads for PCGS but all I'm doing is holding PCGS to the high standards that they claim and advertise with and pointing out the risks of relying on their grades and slabs.
As for state sponsored hackers from another thread, did you even bother to check out those policies of those government (Chinese) departments? And they are not specifically targeting PCGS but any company in any field from which they can steal information and/or make money.
BTW may I ask when was the last time you visited China? Did you think to check out the shops selling the fakes or maybe pick up a few fake slabs for your reference collection? Or do you keep your fingers in your ears so you can pretend that there are no problems and PCGS (and others) regularly hide their screw ups.

AI (Artificial Intelligence) learning. We can get to six sigma grading. No more CAC need. My MS 64.87653 beats your MS 64.87652 :(

On Basebals latest comment I have to agree 100%. In ANY grade there will be a spread from the just made it bottom to almost exceeds it top and within that there are coins with and without eye appeal. And I don't expect grading to the 10th decimal place but is being accurate to the nearest full or half grade too much to expect from graders who do it as a profession?
My gripe however (and it is just not PCGS) is the lack of consistency where coins clearly fall above or below the grade on the label and that leads to there being a market for CAC stickers, green beans, gold beans, resubmissions, the crackout game etc.
If PCGS and the other TPGs lift their game I'll be happy to sing their praises (and yes there are many things to praise about PCGS and they do get it right more often than they get it wrong).

Oh I agree that every coin won't sticker. I've nothing against an old slab (pre + grades) say in MS64 that gets a sticker nor against an appealing coin getting a sticker. I also accept that a low end coin within a grade won't be as good as a coin near the top of its given grade.
I do however get annoyed that I might have 20 coins (same date, same mint) where a choice MS64 was deserving of MS65 and a MS66 is inferior to that same MS64 coin, that sort of inconsistency is thousands of dollars when talking about coins that do or don't make Top of the Pops, and yes that so called MS66 is the top coin with a 4 figure book value and undeserving of that grade or value.

Personal bias doesn't come into it. i'd rather the coin be graded at what it should be and not grade above or below what it should be. Inconsistency in grading is what has made buying slabs sight unseen a risk.
More than a few slabbed coins in my collection were picked up (cherrypicked) by spotting such inconsistencies and the seller (often a dealer) has missed out on getting what the coin is worth because they priced based on the grade on the slab and not the worth of the coin in the slab.
Currently have another few hundred coins with a dealer getting slabbed (PCGS HK)so i'll see how many are consistently graded and how many outliers there are.
And of course some coins have nicer eye appeal than coins that graded higher, but when the higher grade coin has more and bigger contact marks than coins of lower grade then you have to wonder how they missed those faults.