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Need Help Identifying This Chinese Coin

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Dman95's Avatar
United States
74 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2020  5:08 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dman95 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I bought this coin recently but I cant identity it.

Thanks for your help.

Need-Help-Identifying-This-Chinese-Coin
Need-Help-Identifying-This-Chinese-Coin
Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2020  07:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bjherbison to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would guess a token or fantasy, not a coin. The bull's eyes on the sides of the first image aren't what I would expect on a Chinese coin.

(But I'll keep watching this post as I've been surprised before.)
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16832 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2020  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's probably been hard for you to identify because it's not actually a coin - the circles on the reverse confirm this, as no actual coins had such circles. It is a "coin-like charm", having the overall appearance of a coin, but bearing inscriptions and images which never appeared on actual coinage. The blobs of red paint, still visible underneath the writing, also indicate a ritual purpose to the item.

The obverse four-character inscription reads "tian bao jiu ru", literally "heaven protect nine wishes", but more poetically as "The Nine Blessings of Tianbao". "Tianbao" was the reign-title of a couple of obscure minor rulers of Mediaeval states in China, but more importantly for understanding this piece, it is the title of a poem in the 2700 year old book of poetry, the Shijing, later adopted as a Confucianist text; the "nine blessings" extracted from it are, roughly translated, "May you be as..."
- Enduring as the mountains,
- Firm as the hills,
- Exalted as the great heights,
- Respected as the lesser heights,
- Unmovable as the four seasons,
- Expansive as the waxing Moon,
- Illuminating as the rising Sun,
- Long-lived as the Great South Mountain,
- Green and lively as the fir and cypress trees.

Saying all of that on a little charm would have needed tiny writing, so they just refer to the poem's title and assume you (or the spirits who are supposed to be paying attention tot he charm and bringing the luck) are aware of the poem.

On the reverse, we have two characters, "cao mu", literally "grass tree"; combined, they mean "vegetation" generally. I'm not entirely sure, but it may have something to do with that ninth blessing. I'm not sure what the circles signify.

Perhaps the intent of the charm is to be buried in a field, to induce an abundant harvest? Or perhaps it is meant to be a part of a set of nine charms, one for each of the blessings.

As for age, it does not look "modern", but not "old" either; the red paint would not have survived for centuries. Perhaps late 19th - early 20th century?
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2020  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm under the impression that this is a Korean charm. The colors look very similar to what was used in the late 1800s of that era.

Could be very wrong.
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Dman95's Avatar
United States
74 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2020  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dman95 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This link shows a Koeran coin that has the 2 circles on the sides like the one I have. This one is slightly larger, 28mm and mine is 25mm.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces122798.html

Thanks for all of the responses especially Sap!
So interesting to know what the writing means.
I agree that it is in pretty good shape and similar to other coins I have in quality from late 1800s to early 1900s.
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Dman95's Avatar
United States
74 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2020  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dman95 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sap,
Is the inscription written top, bottom, right, left? Tian bao jiu ru? Sometimes it is not the standard way.
Thanks!
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16832 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2020  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is the inscription written top, bottom, right, left? Tian bao jiu ru? Sometimes it is not the standard way.

Yes, that's the way this charm is read.

Chinese coins (and cash-style coins of other nations) can be read either way; coins with inscriptions ending in "tong bao" traditionally are read up-down-right-left; coins with the inscription ending in "yuan bao" are traditionally read clockwise, up-right-down-left. This tradition dates from the Tang Dyansty coins, most of which were inscribed "Kai yuan tong bao" (when read up-down-right-left, the traditional way of reading pre-Tang Chinese coins), with the "yuan" at the bottom and "tong" at the right; after 300 years of putting the "yuan" at the bottom, it just looked wrong putting it anywhere else.

Because both formats were in use, sometimes simultaneously during the Song Dynasty, charms could be written to be read either way.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Dman95's Avatar
United States
74 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2020  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dman95 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Sap. That is interesting about the history of how the coins were written. I think it may be Korean. This one has red paint on it also I noticed today. Are the Korean characters similar to Chinese?



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Need-Help-Identifying-This-Chinese-Coin
Edited by Dman95
03/15/2020 9:38 pm
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