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1969 S Penny Machine Doubling

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JoeVegas444's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  5:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JoeVegas444 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
So, I found a 1969 S penny with Machine Doubling on the date. To my knowledge, this coin should carry no premium. However, I've seen these things sell on ebay for a substantial premium. Why is that? Buyers don't know what they're actually buying?
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply




to the CCF!
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please include pictures.

Anyways, a lot of sellers (not all, but a lot of them) on ebay will sell Machine Doubling to the buyers that absolutely have no idea what they're buying. Also, the ignorant sellers will also sell coins with Machine Doubling without even knowing (often mistaken for a Doubled Die, when it's not).
Errers and Varietys.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a large DDO for that year. Even on the DDO they also have a lot of Machine Doubling on those examples. But MD is very common on the 1968-1972 cents. Here is an example of some:
1969-S-Penny-Machine-Doubling
When you look at the date, all 4 examples are the DDO. But note the yellow arrows? Those are showing where the machine doubled the coins devices. Note they they are often in the same area, but not always the same. Where as the doubled die is consistent. A very high percentage of these coins that year have the Machine Doubling. So when they see that they think they have the big DDO. But there are probably less than 100 examples out there that have the big DDO. So they are the premium coin. But what everyone doesn't realize, is that the date is not the area with the largest doubling. I show you a full shot and you will see what the largest spread looks like on this doubled die:
1969-S-Penny-Machine-Doubling
When look at this image, then they know that they don't have that doubled die. (Note the red arrows)
PCGS had at one time on their page 133 examples of MD normal coins, they everyone thought they had the real deal. But they got graded as a normal coin. So now you know why your coin is not the real deal. Now you know why they are looking so hard and there is a large premium for the real deal. But because of the real number of them found, they al want to think they found the real deal, but they didn't. People ask when they don't know. But when they find the real deal, but when they don't ask, they know that they found the real deal. (except the 133 that submitted theirs to PCGS. They wouldn't believe they didn't find the real deal.)
Edited by coop
04/08/2020 6:35 pm
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Buyers don't know what they're actually buying?


Exactly.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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JoeVegas444's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JoeVegas444 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Below are the pictures. What intrigues me is that I saw an ebay listing with the Machine Doubling clearly spelled out in the product description. It said nothing about DDO, and it still sold for over $1k.


1969-S-Penny-Machine-Doubling
1969-S-Penny-Machine-Doubling
1969-S-Penny-Machine-Doubling
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Someone with more money than intelligence. Fish are always hooked when trolls are fishing. At least he didn't bait the hook. The fish grabbed the bare hook, thinking this was get the deal of the century. But all he got was a bare hook.
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JoeVegas444's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JoeVegas444 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Coop. I hear what you're saying. At first, I was thinking the seller did something inappropriate. He didn't bait the hook or misrepresent what the product was. So, was it unethical? I dunno. The seller probably knew he was getting overpaid.
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SamCoin's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say if the description is honest and the buyer doesn't do her/his due diligence, it's on the buyer. Why would you ever make a $1000 coin purchase before knowing the thing you're buying well enough to confirm it's genuine?
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Errers and Varietys.
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 Posted 04/08/2020  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vindex to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
can a coin have Machine Doubling and partial true doubling?
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JoeVegas444's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JoeVegas444 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see what you're saying SamCoin. As a seller, if you're okay making a one time sale to someone, selling machine doubled coins for an insane premium probably makes sense. At some point, the buyer is going to realize they've made a mistake. The buyer won't be back for repeat business and may even trash the seller. I know the old saying about the sucker and their money are soon parted. I dunno.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/08/2020  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note the first image I posted. If shows Machine Doubling on a doubled die. Just like it happens on regular dies, the machine can alter a doubled die right after the strike. The images of the 4 dates proves it does happen.
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