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Another Possible LSC DDO - 2016 Extra Thickness On Liberty?

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SamCoin's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  12:22 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Another possible minor doubled die on a shield cent. This one is 2016 with what appears to be moderate extra thickness on Liberty. What do people think? Top picture is the suspected DDO, bottom is a regular 2016 cent.

Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, it's a DDO! The left arm of the Y is thicker than the right arm of the Y. Plus I think there might be minor notching on the bottom.
Errers and Varietys.
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SamCoin's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks errers! Can I ask what you do with minor varieties like this? I'm having a hard time attributing them because they're so small, but is it worth throwing in a 2x2 and writing " DDO extra thickness on LIBERTY" just to save it for my collection?
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Willburton's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Willburton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea that's what I would do. I've got a couple like that. I also found a nice unlisted 2015 DDR but the obverse of the coin was so messed up I threw it back!
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SamCoin, what I do with them is I save them in a plastic baggie for later. Whenever I want to do submissions, I'll send them to John Wexler. I'll carefully pick out what I want to send him.
Errers and Varietys.
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jasper62's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jasper62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
personally I would say no, Not a Doubled die The word "Doubled" has a meaning for me as in "Two" The word doubled does not mean fat single device for me. I did not make up the definition of the word Doubled. Sorry for being a stick in the mud.
Edited by jasper62
04/18/2020 3:25 pm
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But on the single squeeze doubled dies, we often see enlargement/spread, without the doubling of the devices.
Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
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SamCoin's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can define it however you want for your own collecting, Jasper, but the term has a well defined meaning on listings like those on CONECA, Wexler's, etc., and extra thickness falls under that definition. The question was just if this coin is in fact that type of doubling, not an esoteric question about whether or not that type of doubling deserves to be collectible.
Edited by SamCoin
04/18/2020 3:26 pm
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jasper62's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jasper62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
we often see enlargement/spread, without the doubling of the devices.

Then call it a single die because as you said there is no doubling
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By making side by sides of the 2016 Liberty you could figure out if they are listed or not by making a Side by side of each of the doubled Liberty examples. Make them all the same size outside and placing them side by side.
Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
I make mine 1200 pixels wide cropped by the outside devices. (or by the same size of the listed devices that may contain some/all the devices on Liberty. If you can't stack them up because you don't have software to do this, they this: Make the images the 1200 wide, the mark the die number so you know what die they are.
These are all three the same image, but if you stacked them up on the forum, this could work for comparisions with three images. Your coin in the center and a different top and bottom image to compare with.
Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
Then reduce the height to as small as possible cropping the tops and bottoms of the images. Make them all a single image and then post them on the forum with images of you coin included. 2 or 3 images at the time. Then you can compare them on the forum. That way you can determine which one it is. You can check this with the preview reply button in the center before you submit reply. Then you can see them stacked up and compare, before you post them. (Where theres' a will, there's Relatives! A twist on an old saying)
Edited by coop
04/18/2020 3:48 pm
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jasper62's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jasper62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not trying to change the definition of a word for my own narrative but seems a a hobby does exactly that. When I hear the word Doubled die I expect to see clear separation of a design or device's as in two not ONE fat design.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Things change. The single squeeze dies are different. The locations on the doubled dies are different. Everyone accepts this standard. But its your choice.
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SamCoin's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, Jasper, there are plenty of examples of pre-single squeeze hubbing coins that exhibited extra thickness without separation. In fact, depending on where you draw the line on "doubling" there are only a handful of coins that actually have complete separation of the devices. By your definition, the famous 1976 DDO bicentennial quarter wouldn't be properly "doubled."
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Tanman2001's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jasper, that's fair. This is an incredibly minor variety. If it does not interest you at all, or if you disagree with it, you don't have to collect them. You can even ignore them completely if you'd like to.

In my opinion, the cause is more important in determining what is/isn't a doubled die than the appearance is. Yes, it may not look like a typical DD but it's caused by the same thing. The mechanism/process that created the 2015 DDO-001, for example, is exactly the same as what created this variety. However, the spread wasn't strong enough on this 2016 cent for separation to show, unlike 2015 DDO-001.

But most importantly: Minor ones like this one would usually show notching, indicating two impressions (doubling), but the direction the spread is going on this one makes it difficult for them to show. So, the extra thickness is the main indication of the doubled die.

Also, by your stance of needing two clear impressions, you'd have to eliminate all classic Class VI DDs as well (Such as 1943 1c FS-101, etc.). Not sure you agree with that?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2020  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another-Possible-LSC-DDO---2016-Extra-Thickness-On-Liberty?
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