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Ancient Coins Depicted On Ancient Coins

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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 06/24/2020  4:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
On some rare occasions during my travels through cyberspace, I have encountered examples of ancient coins with depictions of other ancient coins. Such depictions are exceedingly rare - and therefore interesting.

By contrast, quite a few coins, from several different ancient cultures, show the tools of the coin-making trade: hammer, tongs, anvil, and - occasionally - even coin dies. These are just a few examples:

Ancient-Coins-Depicted-On-Ancient-Coins

Top Row:
T. Carisius, denarius (reverse), Roman Republic, 46 BC - courtesy of CNG
Huvishka, AV dinar (reverse), Kushan Empire, c.152-192 AD - courtesy of CNG
Claudius II Gothicus, antoninianus (reverse), Roman Empire, 268-270 AD - courtesy of CNG
Malaka, Iberia, AE unit (obverse), Celtic, 1st century BC - courtesy of CNG

Bottom Row:
Populonia, Etruria, AE Triens (reverse - the pellets are, apparently, not coins...rather, they may indicate the coin's value), late 3rd century BC - courtesy of CNG
Valerian I, antoninianus (reverse), Roman Empire, 253-260 AD - Agora Auctions
Lipara, Sicily, AE unit (reverse), after 252 BC - Bertolami Fine Arts
Lipara, Sicily, AE unit (reverse), end of 3rd century BC - Numismatica Ars Classica NAC AG


Some very rare coins show striking in progress. Here, from RPC Online, is the reverse of a Philip I Provincial from Ancyra, Phrygia, showing the god of fire Hephaestus (his Roman equivalent is Vulcan - he is also seen in some of the coins above) seated in front of an anvil, with hammer and tongs. (The other figures here are Athena and Cyclops)

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Much, much rarer than the depiction of the tools used to make coins is the depiction of actual ancient coins on ancient coins.

With a notable exception, which this is leading up to, the rare illustration of coins on ancient coins is tiny, a minuscule motif within a larger scene.

Antoninus Pius denarius with a reverse showing Liberalitas emptying coins out of a cornucopia. Courtesy of CNG:

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Ancient-Coins-Depicted-On-Ancient-Coins

Claudius II Gothicus AE medallion with a reverse showing the three Monetae with stacks of coins at their feet. Courtesy of CNG:

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Ancient-Coins-Depicted-On-Ancient-Coins


Cue the drum roll please.

By far the neatest depiction of ancient coins on ancient coins are two types of silver fractions from 4th century BC Samaria. They are remarkable, showing on the reverse five coins together, with the closest one stacked over the others. Sometimes, it seems, all of the five coins are Athenian tetradrachms, with the owls visible. On others, there seem to be different types of ancient coins depicted, but always with at least one Athenian type owl. Sadly, no extant specimens show great detail, to my knowledge. (Assuming they ever had much detail to begin with) The obverse depicts a bi-face (Janiform) head on the hemiobols and a triple-faced head on the obols. (Images below courtesy of CNG, Leu Numismatik, and VCoins)


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Owls:

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Palouche's Avatar
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 Posted 06/24/2020  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow interesting thread Bob..Some lovely coins shown..And absolutely amazing the detail of the little owls on the 5 coins, shows just how prevalent they were..
Here's a coin I was eyeing up earlier this year showing a blacksmith..
Britannia, Trinovantes & Catuvellauni. Cunobelin. Circa 10-43 AD. AE Unit (2.437 g, 14mm). Cunobelinus Metal Worker (Trinovantian W) type. Obv.: bare head left. Rev.: metal worker seated right, hammering vase. Van Arsdell 2097
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 06/24/2020  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a great thread. Thx Bob!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 06/24/2020  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent thread Bob, interesting to see the tools of the trade being depicted on the coin itself.
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Novicius's Avatar
United Kingdom
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 Posted 06/24/2020  6:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Novicius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never seen coins with other coins on them, or coins with the minting tools before. I wasn't even aware they existed, so many thanks for sharing this Bob.

Jim
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Finn235's Avatar
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 Posted 06/24/2020  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Superb examples, and I agree - very cool and curious that the Samaria obols explicitly depict a small pile of owls!

We can't forget one of the most common motifs on Roman coins - Liberalitas holding a counting board filled with coins

Ancient-Coins-Depicted-On-Ancient-Coins

Likewise, some of the early sestertii show the scene where the coins are dumped into the toga of the Roman citizen receiving his COVID stimulus package donative

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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 06/24/2020  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the comments, guys. Good update, Steve (Liberalitas with counting board - certainly that motif is a common one).
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 Posted 06/25/2020  07:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no coins to add to the thread, but this is really cool Bob.

Keen observation and very imaginative idea for a topic.

The other coins posted are also very cool.

Thanks. Well done.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 06/25/2020  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Scott.

In my initial post above I stated "On others, there seem to be different types of ancient coins depicted" among the five - meaning they don't always appear to be Athenian owls. Since the Samarian coins date to the 4th century BC, the subject coins would have to be at least that old.

The one below (shown in the enlarged detail) seems to depict a left-facing bird, perhaps a swan. There are a number of issues, across several cultures, that would fit the, uh, bill. A strong contender might be an issue from Mallos (Mallus), Cilicia, which minted obols and staters with swans in the 5th and 4th century BC. Granted, these are smaller coins than the Athenian tets, but I seriously doubt that relative proportions of the five subject coins mattered. And, being from Asia Minor, it's a given that the abundant swan issues of Mallos would have been familiar to the (relatively nearby) Samarians. Anyway, it's fun to speculate on such meager visual evidence. Mallos swans below the Samarian detail:


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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 06/25/2020  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bob, I've been thinking more about this thread. Any thoughts on why these other coins might have appeared on The Samarian fractional coins? Perhaps to show a visual equivalence in value? Emphasize political or economic ties? I don't know enough of the history to do more than speculate, but you being wicked smart and may have some more informed reasoning...
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 06/25/2020  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Any thoughts on why these other coins might have appeared on The Samarian fractional coins?


Dave,

See the article "Coinage for Redeeming the Firstborn: An Ancient and Modern Jewish Ritual" in the December 2002 issue of The Celator: http://community.vcoins.com/celator-vol-16-no-12/

Here are some excerpts, below. Note, especially, the sentence that the red arrow points to in the first excerpt and, then, read the lower passage.


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Ancient-Coins-Depicted-On-Ancient-Coins

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Edited by Kamnaskires
06/25/2020 4:21 pm
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 06/25/2020  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is really interesting about these Samarian coins. David Hendin list only one of this type H-1042 but doesn't go into any detail about their Biblical meaning. They do seem to be quite rare so finding one would be difficult. I would like to add one of these to my small collection of Biblical coins.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 06/25/2020  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perfect thx Bob. This thread has been quite educational for me.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Archeo1982's Avatar
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 Posted 07/04/2020  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archeo1982 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting indeed. I only know examples of early medieval coins where they make coins
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 Posted 07/06/2020  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great post Bob, I didn't know about those Samarian coin at all. The "triple" version of the Janiform head on some of them is neat, but the tertradrachm reverse is AWESOME!
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