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Lustre And Grading

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Canada
122 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  5:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rogers to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey,

I've seen a lot of stuff in grading guides about lustre: what if your coin has all the detail it did originally, but there's no lustre? I have several like this, and am unsure as to how to grade them.

Thanks!

Moved to grading forum
Edited by Sap
11/17/2008 01:43 am
Valued Member
Canada
122 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2008  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rogers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, and also, what if the coin is really worn but still has the lustre?
Edited by rogers
11/16/2008 5:48 pm
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16809 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2008  02:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
what if your coin has all the detail it did originally, but there's no lustre?

You have to ask, "What happened to the lustre?". If the lustre is gone because the coin has seen circulation, then that will obviously affect the grade. Lustre can be removed by chemical processes, too - acidic coin "dips" can destroy lustre, and this will likewise downgrade a coin. An adverse atmospheric environment such as pollution or sea spray, or fire, or repeated sudden increases and decreases in temperature, can all cause the lustre to fade. Whether it affects the grade depends on whether the actual surface of the coin has become damaged. Either way, the price will no doubt be affected; a lustreless coin has less "eye-appeal" than a lustrous one.

Bright shiny lustrous metal is un-natural and with a few exceptions (such as gold) all coins will eventually lose their lustre with time. Lustre is not taken into consideration at all when grading ancient and mediaeval coins, because the chances of lustre surviving all those centuries are slim indeed.

Quote:
what if the coin is really worn but still has the lustre?

This one's easier. It's not possible. A worn yet apparently lustrous coin has most likely been polished or cleaned in some way as to inpute artificial lustre onto the coin; this is called "whizzing" and always reduces the technical grade and value of a coin.

It's possible that what you've actually got are severely worn or grease-filled dies - this can give the appearance of being a worn coin, when in fact it is not. The presence of genuine lustre on "worn" areas of an otherwise mint state coin is seen as a sign of die wear. Die wear does not alter the technical grade, only the price.

Then, of course, there are the "roadkill" coins. Imagine a fully lustrous MS state coin, dropped on the road where a few cars drive over it. It'll get all kinds of dings, scars and scratches on it from the gravel, but still be fully lustrous in the few remaining undamaged parts. How would you grade it? The prevailing answer (as far as the TPGs are concerned) is, "You can't.". Such coins are considered damaged and ungradeable. Personally, I grade roadkill coins the same as I grade holed coins; downgrade the coin by from two to six full grades, depending on the proportion of the area affected.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Valued Member
Canada
122 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2008  02:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rogers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, thanks for all the info!

About the "really worn yet still has lustre," I have a coin (https://goccf.com/t/36291 - scroll down a bit) that's still really shiny etc, but worn down. Would this have been 'whizzed'?
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Australia
16809 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2008  04:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're referring to the 5 centimes? I'm not too sure about that one; these coins are supposed to be bronze-coloured, not "gold-coloured". It may have been plated post-mint - which is, I suppose, another way a "worn" coin can re-acquire lustre. A "whizzed" bronze coin can also take on an un-natural golden colour, depending on the alloy used - I've never seen a whizzed French bronze coin, so I don't know how they turn out.

I can't be sure just from looking at your pics what colour it actually is, or how worn it is.

Of course, these particular coins have quite "soft" details to begin with. Here is a matte proof piedfort example, the absolute best possible detail one of these coins can have, and it still looks weak and "worn" in places.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2008  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
About the "really worn yet still has lustre," I have a coin (http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...PIC_ID=36291 - scroll down a bit) that's still really shiny etc, but worn down.
Just going by the photo, there's the possibility the coin was struck by a dirty or heavily worn die. I know of several coin series where dies were used well beyond their reasonable life, resulting in quite a few mushy strikes. So if you look at your coin under a loupe and scope and see consistent luster between fields and devices, without whizzing (fine scratches, often directional) the coin may simply be a die issue.
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norseman012's Avatar
United States
357 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2008  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norseman012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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