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 Replies: 18 / Views: 2,252 |
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
How would you grade this 1853 gold eagle? Here's the tough part. I am curious to know what you think based on DETAIL ONLY, without regard to all the dings and other distractions. And they are numerous. I know that any final, net grade would include all the marks on the obverse, but I ask you to ignore them. They are especially distracting when the coin is magnified. So that will be the challenge: to grade using detail-only blinders. Thanks! Image:  obv1.jpg35.32 KB Image: obv2.jpg61.75 KB Image: obv3.jpg63.97 KB Image: obv4.jpg45.72 KB Image: rev1.jpg69.82 KB Image: rev2.jpg60.47 KB Image: rev3.jpg62.02 KB Image: rev21.jpg62.69 KB Image: rev22.jpg68.06 KB Image: rev23.jpg58.91 KB Edited by fmtaxguy
11/23/2008 7:22 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Based on detail along I would grade this coin EF-40.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Its not a problem for me ,,Net grading irritates my senses !
AU-50 while I see rub on a few places the normal pattern for what I would expect wear to look like is very small .
I think most of what is visable is the result of being bagged .
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Based on wear only this coin has a shot at AU50 but I think I'd end up going EF45 because the reverse has too much wear on the talons, neck and wings to make AU.
For an 1853 it looks pretty good but we need a pic of the entire reverse to be more specific.
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Valued Member
 United States
257 Posts |
I have added 3 additional photos to the original post showing the full reverse, bherring1964. I hope it helps.
A local dealer told me, today, that he wouldn't grade it over a VF 20 or 25. Maybe he was afraid I'd ask him to buy it. I am really trying to decide whether to keep it, now that I have it in hand. He also referred to the coin as "common" because of the 201k produced in 1853.
I thought that was still a small absolute number, given that (if true) over 95% of the gold coins prior to 1932 were recalled and melted down. This is the only (semi) affordable 1853 gold eagle I have run across to fill a space in my 1853 denomination collection. I just want to make sure that I am still not being taken. Your input is most appreciated, as I have another 5 days to return it if desired. Thanks all.
Edited by fmtaxguy
11/23/2008 7:29 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
What's up with the rim at 1:00 on the reverse? I'll look into the grading criteria but it's better than VF20 for sure.
What did you pay for it?
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
The rim has two nicks at 1:00 which do not extend over or around the edge. With shipping and insurance, I paid $581. Too much?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
With shipping and insurance, I paid $581. Too much?
For me it would have been too much. It's gold weight is just under 1/2 ounce, so you've got about $400 worth of gold plus a small numismatic premium (say 10%). I wouldn't have gone over $450. I'd grade it EF40 but this coin is valued as bullion and with gold being where it is ($795/oz), I'd say you paid $100 too much. I'd probably keep it though. I see gold at $1200/oz by the end of next year and you'll be a bit ahead at that rate. For $581 you should be able to find an Eagle like that top tier slabbed (PCGS/NGC) in EF condition. |
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
The average retail sales from the NGC price guide at the grade of EF40 shows at $640, and at $750 from the PGCS price guide. Those amounts, as I understand it, are average retail sales from a variety of sources, including many dealers, auctions, etc. If that is true then I am not understanding your valuation. I hope you can explain just a bit further for this newbie. The price you stated, in fact, was about the wholesale price the dealer gave me when he graded it it a VF20 or 25. I guess I am experiencing glitch in my learning curve. Anything else you could provide to clarify would be most appreciated.
The only ones I have found, top tiered slabbed, are for higher AU and MS grades. The cost of those are prohibitive to me unfortunately. $1200/oz? You really think so?
Edited by fmtaxguy
11/23/2008 10:48 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
fmtaxguy, I hope this link helps: http://completed.shop.ebay.com/item...30&_udhi=470If you're an ebay member you can look up completed listings on $10 Gold Eagles. A lot of $10 Libs went for $440 to $470 this weekend on ebay. Heritage Auction also has completed listings you can search. There's very little mark up on bullion. Common date pre-1933 U.S. Gold is sold as bullion plus a small premium for any numismatic value, slabbing, etc. Until you hit about AU55 in a top tier slab, there's really very little premium to add in. A raw, common date, $10 gold eagle is bringing around $450 on ebay right now. Take a look and you'll see some decent deals. Gold is low right now. Hang in there and keep an eye on kitco.com for spot price and don't pay more than 10% over it for common stuff. The price guides are usually high end retail values and they can't keep up with the movement in precious metals these days. |
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
Thanks so much for staying with this. Your feedback and information is very, very helpful. I see what you mean about the price range. One caveat, however. None are 1853, the year that I am collecting, at present. The few on ebay for that year are relatively rather expensive. I don't understand how a mintage of 201k, for the 1853, can be considered common, especially with the recall and melt down in the early 1930's. Any thoughts? Edited by fmtaxguy
11/24/2008 12:17 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
581 isn't too bad actually, most of the eagles I see on ebay go for around that. |
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
Are you also of the opinion that this coin is worth only a bit over bullion value, ShadowCreator? I still don't get the "common" designation.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
I mean, if you sold it on heritage, probably, but on ebay, gold coins go way over that. I've never been able to get a decent deal on gold, EVER. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
I don't understand how a mintage of 201k, for the 1853, can be considered common, especially with the recall and melt down in the early 1930's. Any thoughts?
Please remember that numismatic coins were excluded from the recall and melting. Your coin was 80 years old at the time of the recall so it would have been exempt. Most of the gold that was melted was coined in the 1920s & early 1930s. Mintage of over 100,000 makes nearly any gold coin common. Many dates and Mintmarks are well under 50,000 pieces. Your coin being an 1853 does make it more valuable than say a 1906 but not by much. Does 1853 have significance to you? If it does the premium may be justified. Good Luck! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6383 Posts |
Hi Fmtaxguy, I would agree that the price was a bit high, but not outrageous. Three 1853 eagles in NGC and ICG AU-55 slabs sold recently on Heritage for $632.50, including buyer's fee. A PCGS XF-45 example sold for $488.75. You would pay extra for shipping, plus sales tax if you live in Texas or California. Your coin has solid EF-45 detail, but might get net-graded to EF-40 due to the hits on Liberty's face. For my money it would have been worth stretching a bit more for one of those AU-55's if I wanted this date. Here's one of the NGC coins from the Heritage website:  It's well worth signing up for a free membership on Heritage. You get access to their auction archives and can easily find recent sale prices for the coins that you want. |
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Replies: 18 / Views: 2,252 |
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Posted 11/23/2008 3:16 pm
