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 Replies: 18 / Views: 3,713 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
as the title says.... any comment, even as to grade is welcome thank you   |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2843 Posts |
I believe that is a die clash. The beads on the obverse seem to be a wider circle than those on the reverse. Which would line them up perfectly to be a clash.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5593 Posts |
H ... you need to use some of your reference books or library. This coin has been discussed many times over the last 15 years and has been the subject of many many coin hunts in the past. In Griffin, it is variety Gr-91. "The N's of Regina and Canada are almost corrected. The beads and letters of the legend of the Obverse show under the leaves of the Reverse at the bottom of the cent." rarity 8 (which is the highest rarity he used and there are only 4-5 R-8's in his whole book of large cent varieties).
We included it on p.308 of the 2011 65th edition of Charlton. There are really 2-3 different types. In one type like yours, the clash was only once, which resulted in full, round bead clashes showing, and then those that are football-shaped bead clashes from multiple clashes on the working die that overlap the round beads and making them football-shaped or oblong. They really don't deserve a rarity of 8, as I have a few of both types. They are relatively hard to find, but not rare and most of the Vicky variety folks that I know have more than 1. I'd give you a VF-30 from the photo, but hard to tell without really looking at it.
Edited by okiecoiner
09/29/2020 11:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
I'm with the others die clash, and like Bill has mentioned not rare or scarce I've seen several in lower grades but few in Mint State look for a nice mint state one's I can't ever remember seeing a mint state one of the foot ball clash nice collectable coin's.
It took me a while to find a mint state regular die clash one I'm still hunting for the multi die clash one (foot ball type) one in mint state condition.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5593 Posts |
Here's one of the "football" ones:   |
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
I've always liked this variety. Your coin, as well as okie's are the same variety with okie's being a later die state. This GR-91 shows a strong bead clash across L8-L10 with a letter clash from the tip of L9 to the vine between the leaf tip and the bead clash as shown in both of your close up shots of the clash. In each of your full reverse shots you can see a bust clash starting at the bead line just right of the H and travelling to the bead line under the first 1.
There is another, lesser known GR-91 bead clash on a different die. This one is a single bead clash like your example but only at L9 and towards L10. It is a lighter clash. There is no letter clash at L9 on this one but there is the bust clash. The die cracking on each of the dies that produced these 2 GR-91's is different.
For all of you that have a multiple GR-91's in your collection, take a closer look. You might well have 2 different varieties rather than just the 1. We almost always stop when we see the GR-91 clash. Look just a bit deeper, you might be surprised at what you have.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
Would this be the 3rd type you mention Dan, it is faintly doubled and hard to see but it is a single die clash starting at the edge of L-8 to L-7. The Obverse also has a die crack running through the C in Canada from the bead line to the denticle on the outer rim   |
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
 If this is the C in CANADA on the obverse, then we are talking about the same coin, yes. As with all clashes, not all coins will have them. Only 25% of the coins (that I have seen) associated with the obverse that has this die crack through the C in CANADA, have the light G-91 clash. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
Same one Dan.  |
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
Bingo! that's what I'm talking about.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5593 Posts |
Dan and Jim .... I just looked at 8 '81's with the D/C thru the C in Canada and none had the weak clash. Is it only on Obv 1a's or also on the 1a/1's?
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
The original GR-91 that everyone is familiar with is against a 1a obverse. This additional one is against a 1a/1 obverse with the die crack in the C as shown. As I mentioned 75% of the coins I have seen with that obverse don't exhibit the GR-91 clash.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
I have 3 with the crack through the C in Canada but only 1 with the slight die clash.
Dan I also have one with slight die clash that only shows 3 dots above leaf 9 within the vine of leaf 9 and no die crack in the C
Edited by papeldog
11/02/2020 11:23 am
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
Jim, can you give me any other markers such as die breaks on the rev and anything on the obverse such as doubling or die breaks?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
Edited by papeldog
11/02/2020 12:34 pm
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
Jim, There isn't enough detail in the photos for me to determine much of anything. A photo of the N's on the Obverse, the die crack at the A in VICTORIA and the bust would help. you can skip the bust if you can tell me definitively obv 1, 1a or 1a/1.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,713 |
Posted 09/29/2020 11:02 am
