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Distracted By Lady Godiva

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Valued Member

United States
284 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2020  11:55 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Kcm to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I sent this to PCGS for grading. Upon return I got very vexed - having little to do with the grade given. What upset me was to discover that the PCGS population for this coin is two. There was an earlier submission that graded higher than mine. Research revealed that to spot the difference between my coin and others like it on PCGS one needs to read the information printed on the rim. I've never seen it. If I want to see it, I'll need to crack it out of the slab. Call me disinclined.

I cannot locate even a ballpark value (the other one either hasn't been sold or the sale went unreported. My question for the better informed on these matters (i.e. those who know how to examine old British coins and tokens) is "Is this very rare in and of itself? Or is it just rare to bother a TPG with it?"

Kevin

Distracted-By-Lady-Godiva
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NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
17949 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2020  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's not a rare token but is quite collectable in that condition. I've got one that's much more worn.

These halfpennies exist dated 1793, 1794 and 1795 and there are lots of varieties.

As these tokens are probably most widely collected in the UK, and especially in the Midlands (many collectors specialize in tokens from their county or area), I'm not surprised that very few have been slabbed. Slabbed coins of any kind are still quite a rarity in the UK.
Valued Member
United States
284 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2020  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kcm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Much new learning; much gratitude.
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United States
284 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2020  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kcm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NumisRob,

In the hour or two since our exchange, curiosity ate away at me. You wrote "I've got one that's much more worn." Will you indulge me to know what's written on the edge of yours?

Kevin
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JasonKflo's Avatar
United States
1694 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JasonKflo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yours looks a bit undergraded . Nice example
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JasonKflo's Avatar
United States
1694 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JasonKflo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yours is D the PCGS verification says so it would say Payable at London or Anglesey
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oriole's Avatar
Canada
5244 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a very popular collectible among the token collectors. I would like to get one eventually, but I am kind of cheap.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What was the grade?
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JasonKflo's Avatar
United States
1694 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JasonKflo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
it says XF-40 on PCGS Site @Coinfrog looks a tad nicer to me
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In British Grading that PCGS 40 , is no better than
GVF .
These are popular to collect but are hardly rare .
There are currently 19 listed on ebay with several
nicer ones .
If you ever visit Coventry , the Lady Godiva statue is
Prominently displayed in the Town Square , near the
Famous Coventry Cathedral ruins .
Edited by Pacificoin
12/25/2020 12:46 pm
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KenKat's Avatar
United States
4085 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Reminds me of an old song:

Godiva was a lady who through Coventry did ride--
Just to show to all the villagers her fine and fair white hide--
But the most observant fellow, a numismatist of course--
Was the only one to notice that Godiva rode a horse--
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JasonKflo's Avatar
United States
1694 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JasonKflo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@pacificoin I thought gFine was the equivalent of US EX-40 and gVF was AU-50 to 53
Valued Member
United States
284 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2020  07:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kcm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Pacificoin,

Please refer to my original post. Apparently in effort to address the issues of rarity I raised, you state "These are popular to collect but are hardly rare. There are currently 19 listed on ebay...," My issue is your use of the term "These" and the number 19 in your post. Can you please clarify a bit?

I have not gone to ebay. I don't like the site. How trustworthy is your assessment? By analogy, if you held a LWC and I noticed 10 Lincoln Memorial cents and 9 Lincoln Shield cents on offer at that site, would it not be amiss to voice opinion on the rarity of your LWC? Regardless of real world accuracy or inaccuracy of that opinion, my basis for it seems flawed -- at least to me.

As my thread title implies, I was unaware until PCGS woke me up to it that not just two, but three dies were needed in minting these tokens. When I last checked, mine was second of a population of two on PCGS. I did find other tokens on PCGS struck in the same year, apparently with the same obverse and reverse dies. Can you be more clear as to how certain should your reader be that your report is valid? One of the main variant in coin rarity is the die used in the striking.

Kevin

P.S. Would someone please advise me how to properly quote another member's post?
Edited by Kcm
12/26/2020 07:11 am
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NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
17949 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2020  09:03 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kcm - very sorry, just looked at this thread again and realised that you'd asked me a question that I never answered. Well, the edge on my 1792 Coventry halfpenny is "Payable at the Warehouse of Robert Reynolds & Co".

I would reiterate my earlier statement that the vast majority of these Coventry halfpennies are probably reposing in the collections of specialist token collectors in the UK, and it's highly unlikely that any British collector would send a trading token to a TPG.
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nss-52's Avatar
United States
54282 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2020  10:46 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
P.S. Would someone please advise me how to properly quote another member's post?


There is a button you can use on the "Format" area (not available on Quick reply).

Or you can type the quote /quote tags [ ] around the copied text
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)
See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here)
Valued Member
United States
284 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2020  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kcm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you nss-52!

NumisRob-

That was kind of you. In younger days, knowing no better, I purchased and stored an extensive British collection. Now, in retirement, its coins and I are introducing each to the other. I've found that intervention by a third party familiar with my newcomer eases my path. Know, therefore, that you're appreciated in my encounter with Lady Godiva.

I base stories on my limited knowledge and tell them to myself. This somehow propagates further knowledge for me. My fictional sections require glue until I can replace them with fact. Itold myself a heavily glued story on this "trading token." I love this new - to me - term. It fits into my story, neither adding stuff nor omitting fodder.

My story begins not with trading tokens, but rather "coin of the realm," George III's realm. I own a goddawful cartwheel (32 mm.) penny and halfpenny. You know of what I speak, rounded slabs of pure copper. I'm told these were required to restore faith in a realm plagued by counterfeiting. These, I'm sure, never have been and never will be counterfeited—too costly to fashion.

Next chapter: Not just the Crown but also the mercantile sector had to have been similarly plagued. I glued the idea of rampant 1793 mercantile distrust into place. Merchants resorted to having trustworthy currency minted (ergo "trade tokens, not "coins"). Distrust reached beyond the door of the private mint. One never knows - do one? What sort of deal offered by one's competitor might have tempted the minter to shave value from his product? I glue in the assertion merchants poured honor into their tokens and that most tokens were honored. Still, I perceive a swell of ease in a merchant's heart when the species paid for goods or services was his own mintage attested to by the rim.

Epilogue: If much of what I glued to my story is in fact, it makes these - on surface identical -- trade tokens as different - some from some others - as are pennies and cents.

Kevin
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