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To Slab, Or Not To Slab

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 1,247Next Topic  
Valued Member
coggie59's Avatar
United States
253 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2006  05:58 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coggie59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
third party grading was just comming in when I stepped out of the hobby to raise the kids 1 son & 4 daughters. any how I read some good things and some bad things. I know you buy the coin not the plastic. but dosnt a third party give you some security when it comes to buying and selling . I mean pcgs, anacs, ngc,icg, these are reputable organizations right? your thoughts on this ple ASE
New Member
CommonCents's Avatar
United States
32 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2006  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CommonCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the top four or so are reputable and in some cases useful. Are you wondering if you should slab coins that you currently own? My rule of thumb for slabs are coins that require additional authentication due to the amount of counterfeits or altercations (ex: 09svdb 1C, 14d 1C, 1877 etc) other coins I like to slab are coins where one MS grade make a huge $$ difference. The last thing I could say about TPG is if you are the only hobbyist in the house, TPG may make it easier for someone to dispose of your coins if something was to happen to you. Other than the above reasons, I like coins raw, there easier to view, handle and the cost of TPG often ruins my small profit margin.
Valued Member
zakgold's Avatar
United States
382 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2006  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zakgold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I buy "sight-unseen" (i.e., ebay), I will only buy certified coins from the the likes of PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG and sometimes SEGS and PCI (for them, I minus 2-3 MS grading points). At the very minimum, I know what I am getting...hence to your comment about security.

Even if I have the coin in hand, I will not buy a key date coin like a 1916-D Merc or 1909-S VDB or a 1955 1c DDO UNLESS it is certified and authenticated by the likes of the top four. I have seen just too many excellent counterfeits circulating the show floors and the likes of internet auction houses like ebay.

Fact of the matter, I will never buy raw coins on line again, ever! MS really means AU and EF40 really means VF20. Not all of the time, but the vast majority of it. Even the best of eyes can be fooled, and all it takes is one time to sour your interest in this hobby.

I also like buying and slabbing my coins for the purpose of liquidity and quick selling. I can easily sell my 1909-S VDB graded by PCGS at MS63BN in hours compared to if I called a dealer and told him I had the same coin raw. That dealer may tell me it is a MS61BN, not 63BN, and there lies the problem...grading opinions differ and will always be subjective.

Of course if he bought that same coin from me as a 61BN, he may try to sell it as a 63BN later. It is NOT my opinion, nor the seller, nor the buyer, but the opinion of a reputible grading service in question. You may or may not agree with the grade, but the market has demonstrated and proved that a coin graded and authenticated by _____ grading service is worth way more than if you stated it yourself. Why? Peace of mind (security) from the buyer knowing what he or she is buying is the real deal. All things being equal, that makes coin A more valuable than coin B for the same coin, in the same grade. After all, you know what "trust me" translates to?

Last but not least, I like how slabs protect and present my coins. I like ICG's slab with the Intercept Shield protection. I know that all things being equal (there's that phrase again), my red Lincolns will stay red compared to if they were stored in a flip or 2x2.

There are many that will argue that slabbing has taken away from coin collecting and made it a business. Maybe they are right, but let me tell you faced to face. Those are the same people that will try to sell you a Morgan graded by themselves as a MS65 and later on will buy it back from you as a MS63.

Not everybody of course! But more people than the "honest" dealers and sellers of rare coins.

As for submitting coins for slabbing/authentication. I have and would submit only key date coins and those coins in high MS conditions. It is not worth it to slab a MS63 common date Morgan, but if it were a MS65, than maybe it is worth it. Figure the cost of submission (around $20 to $30 per coin) plus S&H and see if it is really worth the cost of slabbing.
Edited by zakgold
02/14/2006 2:22 pm
New Member
United States
15 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2006  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gryphonfoot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like my coins raw. But I only buy them from a dealer I trust. I do buy slabbed coins sometimes though. If I buy sight unseen I will buy only slabbed PCGS or NGC and nothing else. If there is a coin that I want to buy I don't really care too much if it is slabbed or not as long as it is from one of those two services or my trusted dealer. 1st choice is raw though. They are easier to look at and don't take up as much space either.
Pillar of the Community
coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2006  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I buy only what I can hold in my hand first, unless it's a bulk deal of rolls or bags and doesn't matter. No exceptions. All single coin purchases sit in my hand before I pay. I won't use ebay or any other gambling site to buy coins. Too much junk and not enough honest people who have a clue about what they are doing.

Given that, I do not need a holder to tell me what a coin is, I grade it myself. I authenticate it myself. I can do this with confidence because I have spent years gaining experience doing it. I have learned by looking at thousands - tens of thousands of coins.

So when it comes time to purchase, I don't care what kind of holder the coin is in, or whether it's even in a holder. I will pay the same amount for a given coin regardless of what it's in. If there is a premium for the holder, they can keep it...and I find that quite frequently there is a premium for the holder.
Valued Member
United States
393 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2006  2:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tnwalker10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
" ebay or other gambling sites" very well put coppercoins! I'm almost ashamed to say it, but I've been taken on online auctions. Some things I have learned though are; don't bid unless there is a very good quality picture of both sides not obscured by a holder, don't bid unless the seller is willing to take time to fully describe the coin(including marks, scratches, rim dings, toning, wear, and an opinion of grade), don't bid until you've carefully read their feedback. I'm sure there are other precautions that can be taken if I knew them. I have noticed that bobby131313's auctions meet all of the above. I have'nt bought anything from him yet but I'm watching his auctions closely. Of course buying slabbed coins can eliminate a lot of the hassle. Rick
Pillar of the Community
djluster's Avatar
United States
1327 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2006  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add djluster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I personal Like unslabed coins, the main reason is it fits in a album, also that is the way the coin are supost to be raw just like the way it comes form the mint.
of cousre I might feel a lot different if I was buying to sell, not buying becuause I collect coins, or if I had a coin that had the value worth slabing, since I don't think a mondern coin have the value or any reason to slab them
Valued Member
zakgold's Avatar
United States
382 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2006  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zakgold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sit back and watch the PCGS Grading forum that took place over the FUN show with the top names in numismatics (i.e. Bowers, Travers, and others). It is over a hour and a half, but as a collector, I learned a bunch. You can do! I liked listening to how these guys got into the business and how they "graded" before the advent of third party grading. Also interesting was the topic of "gradeflation".

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/articl...iverseid=313
Edited by zakgold
02/16/2006 07:14 am
Rest in Peace
Mike's Avatar
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2006  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the link Zakgold. I will watch it over the weekend. Some of our Members attended the forum. I wonder if we will see them in the crowd? Mike
Valued Member
coggie59's Avatar
United States
253 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2006  04:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coggie59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow thanks for the input , you probably answered my questions and fueled a few more. I myself like raw coins I also am a fan of circulated with the deep tones in the devices gives me a little feel for the history. and as I only have one dealer local(60 miles away) I have just started to bid on ebay. and I have seen the over grading and it dos give cause to pause. so I have been bidding to what I see as grade if I dont win so be it. and these have been lower grade hole fillers. and as I have a few dollars to (invest) have been thinking of upgrading. thinking that I might pass it on to my survivors when the time comes . I might be able to give them a fair legacy. hence the TPG. for higher end coins TPG might give some security for them if and when they turn it over. thanks again always good council on this site glad I joined thanks again coggie(Jeff)
Pillar of the Community
toast's Avatar
Australia
1091 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2006  04:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add toast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have not seen coins outside of the USA being slabbed. But I'm sure it must happen but on a much smaller scale.

Really if you can't tell the condition of the coin yourself, should you be paying a high price for it? And if you can tell the condition of the coin, why bother slabbing it? I'm sure someone will give me a good reason.

My understanding of slabbing is that it's for an investor without any knowledge of coins. He doesn't need to know how to grade a coin, just the buy and sell prices.

Still, they do look well protected inside their plastic prison.
Valued Member
zakgold's Avatar
United States
382 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2006  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zakgold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are THREE periods in a coin's life with a given person. When the person acquires the coin, the market of the coin, and the ultimate sale or liquidity of the coin.

[I learned this from watching the PCGS grading video. Scott Travers is a pretty sharp guy in the field of numismatics!]

As a buyer, you want to be assured that what you are buying is the 'real deal'. As I stated before, I would NEVER buy a key date coin unless it was authenticated by the top TPG's. Never, ever again! Therefore, I now have some peace of mind knowing that the coin I acquired "slabbed" is authenticated, problem free (unless stated) and with a grading opinion.

Now before slabbing, the panel agreed that there were only a couple of a hundred dealers and collectors spread out that could REALLY grade coins. Also, before slabbing, dealers and collectors had to deal with terms like GEM, CHOICE, GEM CHOICE, AU, Looks Uncirculated, (LU) and a whole glossary of grading terms. Even with that, many dealers pounded their fist on the table claiming a given coin was a EF when most others saw it as a VF. Hence, why PCGS started.

So back to my first premise. When you are buying a coin (phase one) you know what you are getting. If anything, slabbing helped teach many collectors, including myself, how to grade better! After awhile, if you see enough AU55 Lincolns and EF40 Lincolns in slabs like PCGS or NGC, I feel more comfortable identifying the grade of a raw coin by just comparing it to my Lincolns already graded by these TPGs. Sure Photograde is nice and all, but having real coins in front of you will teach most people faster about grading than by justlooking at pictures.

Second phase. Market changes. For the most part, rare coins do increase in value. Some more than others. Others may fall victim to bank hoard releases (i.e., 1903-O Morgan in 1962 which fell from $1500 in BU condition to $30). Still, if you keep your coins in the same condition as when you first acquired them, there are only so many collectors for a limited population of coins, hence most collected coins will increase in value.

3rd phase...selling the coin. Everyone of us will have to face this fact. Maybe not us, but our kids or family. Our coins WILL out live us! You can state confidently what you have because of the service that graded your coins say so! As I stated before, I could tell a potential buyer of my coin to "trust me" or trust who graded and encapsulated the coin. Your buyer will be more comfortable buying your coins IF they were certified than if they were NOT.

How much more confortable will the buyer pay for this "peace of mind". Well, if you look at the prices realized for coins from the likes of ebay or Heritage Galleries...A LOT MORE!! and immediate liquidity too!
Edited by zakgold
02/17/2006 4:31 pm
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