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 Replies: 17 / Views: 2,779 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
Hey folks, posting this here as it's not really specific to US classic coinage, though I'm using two 1924-D Mercury dime specimens as an example. I know some folks prefer crusty "original skin" coins with natural toning, while others sometimes prefer bright dipped coins. I have my own opinion, but am curious what others on CCF have to say. These are un-adulterated dealer photos (two separate dealers). In my opinion, both of these specimens are relatively similar for grade (within a few points in About Uncirculated). So if you were just looking at the surfaces, which coin would you find more desirable Coin #1 or Coin #2, and which coin do you feel has more luster?Also, please disregard this feature in your overall assessment, but any thoughts on the potential to remove the black gunk at 1 o'clock on the reverse of Coin #1, which is also along the reverse rim? I'm guessing this is not related to toning, so maybe acetone? Thanks! Coin #1:   Coin #2:   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
Imo it's going to be really hard for anyone to give you a solid answer because the lighting appears to be so much different between the pictures. The first one seems a bit underplayed but the second one has the lighting appearance of a "vette1986" or "greatsoutherncoins" piece(both those ebay sellers use the absolute best possible lighting and angles to hide any signs of cleaning or dipping IMO). Depending on how the other coins being sold by the seller of the second coin look I would probably never consider purchasing that coin. The first one appears to be original, and has surfaces I would expect to come with the grade, unlike the second one. The black gunk isn't a particular concern to me, it should come off with acetone and a toothpick. Edited by Adam_E
12/20/2020 11:22 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Agree - these need to be photographed under the same lighting conditions.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
It seams to me like a no brainer . Coin #2 has much better eye appeal than #1 . Also #1 would benefit greatly in my opinion with an Acetone soak , It looks more like crud than toning .
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
591 Posts |
Quote:
It seams to me like a no brainer . Coin #2 has much better eye appeal than #1. Well, with all due respect, I actually don't think it is a "no brainer" at all. Regarding eye appeal, this is considered in addition to "technical grade" criteria: https://www.PCGS.com/eyeappealFor Circulated coins, there are:
1. The amount of wear. This is by far the most important factor in the grading of circulated coins.
2. Marks and abrasions. Depending on the grade, a certain amount of marks and abrasions are expected with circulated coins. Severe or unusually serious marks "for the grade" can be a negative. The higher the circulated grade, the less severe marks can be before they would effect grade.
3. Luster. AU (Almost Uncirculated) coins should have some original luster. For lower grades color and originality have the same effect on grading as luster does for higher grades.
The "technical" grade of the coin is the grade of the coin based on the factors above without taking eye appeal into consideration. Eye appeal either adds or subtracts from the "technical" grade, or is neutral as a factor in determining the final grade. Coin #2 may in fact have considerably less luster than Coin #1. It would seem natural toning on Coin #1 should likely add to its eye appeal vs the general lack of toning on Coin #2. No? Can you elaborate on what basis you feel the second coin beats the first in eye appeal? Quote:
The first one appears to be original, and has surfaces I would expect to come with the grade, unlike the second one. This is consistent with my assessment as well, thank you. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18657 Posts |
coin 2 looks like a greatsouthern coin. like stated they play with angles and lighting to get the best possible photo and hide any imperfections. they are masters at it. I would pass on both of these but if I had to choose it would be coin 1 as the photos appear to be closer to what the coin actually looks like
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
Quote:
coin 2 looks like a greatsouthern coin Yes, Adam_E mentioned the same (a well as Ebayer "vette1986"). I am familiar with the coin photos from both those vendors, and agree that Coin #2 here does have a similar look to it. This Coin #2 is from a different vendor, an online coin shop, not ebay. Coin #2 is advertised as "AU58 FSB", and these photos do not indicate FSB. At AU58, I'd expect nearly full luster and I'm seeing minimal luster on Coin #2. Also, Coin $2 is priced at $42 higher than Coin #1. Quote:
I would pass on both of these but if I had to choose it would be coin 1 as the photos appear to be closer to what the coin actually looks like Could you elaborate on what turns you off about Coin #1, since you said you would likely pass on it? Thanks panzaldi! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5666 Posts |
Agree that there is a huge difference in photo technique, and it wouldn't be surprising if the two coins actually looked very similar in hand. I'd be hesitant to draw any conclusions on surface originality based on these photos alone.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
For me it's simple. Number 2 is close to being a FSB coin and that is what I collect so I pick 2.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5666 Posts |
Close only counts in horseshoes...  Edited by Zurie
12/21/2020 10:17 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Quote:
Could you elaborate on what turns you off about Coin #1, since you said you would likely pass on it? Well how about the washed out cleaned appearance of coin #1. Not saying #2 is gorgeous but eye appeal to me is a little better then #1 and the bands are much better then #1 .  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
Quote:
Well how about the washed out cleaned appearance of coin #1. Not saying #2 is gorgeous but eye appeal to me is a little better then #1 and the bands are much better then #1 @T-BOP - let me make sure I understand you correctly...you feel Coin #1 appears "cleaned", while Coin #2 appears original? I see natural toning in Coin #1 and luster consistent with a mid AU grade coin. I see no natural toning in Coin #2 and hardly any luster whatsoever, and I'm guessing this 2nd coin has been dipped at some point...so it is actually Coin #2 that looks "washed out" to me. So how does one assess originality? Is it the toning of Coin #1 that makes it look "washed out" to you? If not that, then what? |
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
@ OFD , seems like your reading what you want to read . I'm assuming with your user name that you believe your right . No problem ; but in my honest opinion I'm just saying that #2 has a better appearance than #1 .  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
@ T-BOP - you think I'm arrogant cause my user name is "one fine dime"?  I'm simply asking you to elaborate on your assessment. Since you're obviously a long time collector, I think it is more helpful to us novice to intermediate numismatists to have a little more insight than simply, "I like that coin better". That's all. I can appreciate one's opinion much more, when they back it up with some logical reasoning. I would think advanced collectors could elaborate on why they feel one coin has better eye appeal than another. Your first comment included "no brainer", which isn't all that helpful. So if you can provide additional insight on your opinions, that would be more helpful. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
#2 is just simply easier to look at than the first coin , which in my opinion needs
Conservation . It is a rather hideous example that would appeal to few in its present state .
#2 would be instantly saleable to most collectors.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8938 Posts |
Option 3:
I find both equally ugly in terms of eye appeal
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Replies: 17 / Views: 2,779 |
Posted 12/20/2020 11:40 am
