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1933 Double Eagle

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rarecoin's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2008  10:43 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rarecoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
For those who don't know, the 1933 double eagle was made in - what else? - 1933, a year of the Great Depression. President Roosevelt had ordered them to be melted into gold bars, to help with the effort to heal America's economic crisis. Unknown to anyone, a thief found out and stole a bag of 10 double eagles. The bag was discovered missing by a worker at the mint (the bags must have been counted, they were gold coins after all). The robber was captured, but he had already sold the coins. They were discovered in auctions and legendary coin collections. 9 of the coins were tracked down and destroyed. The last coin was recently accidentally sold in an auction to a government agent, and the coin has been locked away.

Okay, I improvised bits of the story, like the worker. I don't know who found the bag missing. I would like to know more about this coin. It's very interesting, and I wonder if it will be stolen again?...
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United States
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 Posted 12/10/2008  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Podoprigora to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i thought there were three or two coins left, one in some museum and some is sold to some privet collector for 7 million dollars, and if there is a third coin it is still not discovered. But that's what I remember.
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wd1040's Avatar
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3098 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2008  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, there is the one that was sold for 7.5 (or 75 or 750 million, I don't remember) but I think there are at least 10 more out there.

The story is that the Executive Order 6102 was applied in April, and by that time, the mint had already started minting the 1933s. There *might* have been a few that was leaked into circulation, but the other 10 that I pointed to were stolen from the mint by employees. In the case that some of them leaked into circulation, every American was entitled to keep $100 in gold, while everything else had to be given up. The 10 that were discovered 2 years ago were confiscated (because they were not released into circulation, meaning that they were not legal tender and still properties of the government) and I think are in Ft Knox right now... it would be a shame if the government melted it down...

So, there was one more, Farouk's 7 million coin. I don't know where that one came from... might anyone care to tell us?

And no. I don't think anyone would steal that again... ever because it would either be grand theft or treason
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BH1964's Avatar
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10982 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2008  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are 10 1933 Double Eagles being "held" pending litigation. I believe 2 more are in the Smithsonian and 1 is in private hands.

The book "illegal Tender" was written about these coins. Don't know about the bag story but I had heard that early in '33 you could have exchanged $20 for a '33 Double Eagle. It's speculated that more are in private hands but since it's "illegal" to possess them - nobody's talking!
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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14454 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2008  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the one that sold for 7.5 million was the only "Legal Tender" 1933 Double Eagle that exists and probably will always be the only one since these coins were never meant to be taken out of the mint so they are stolen property of the US Government and if you would watch the video of the auction (of the one that they sold for 7.5 Million) they had to release it to make it legal tender and said then it would be the only one that would ever be legal to own.


Edit: here is the videos of the sale on you tube https://goccf.com/t/34435
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jfransch's Avatar
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1801 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the story on the 1933 double eagles. They were minted but never, I repeat never, released into circulation. All of them were melted per mint records. However a mint employee is believed to have substituted in at least 20 other date $20 into the 1933 bags and extracted like number of 33's that were then sold? given? traded? to a local Philadelphia jeweler who later disbursed some into the numismatic market place. Before these came up on the governments radar screen as "stolen goods" the government issued an export permit for one to be sent to Egypt's King Farouk (who was a major coin collector). That one coin is the one that has come back, been monetized and is legal to own. There are at least 2 in the Smithsonian and the 10 mentioned above that were confiscated from the heirs of the above mentioned jeweler when submitted to the mint for verification of authenticity. The book "Illegal Tender" makes fascinating reading all about these coins. The other confiscated coins were melted by the government after being taken from their owners in the frenzy following the discovery that some had made it into the collecting market.
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markapsolon's Avatar
United States
207 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  02:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markapsolon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The one 1933 that is legal was property of the King Of Egypt before he was removed from the throne. There are I think 13 more that were reposessed by the Gov (it might be 18 I cant remember that one right off the top of my head) From what I remember mint director O Reilly would probably not have saw a problem with trading like for like pieces before gold ownership was band by the gov. The 1933 was just considered a common coin back in the 30's I believe in the late 30's the 1924 S was considered to be the rarest. Its weird how thing change..lol
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markapsolon's Avatar
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207 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  02:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markapsolon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the one that sold for 7.5 million was the only "Legal Tender" 1933 Double Eagle that exists


Could you only imagine how much the second 1849 Liberty head double eagle would go for today, if it was actually found?
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TreasHunt's Avatar
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2540 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  07:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TreasHunt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are plenty of them available, do an ebay search under China: 1933 Double eagles.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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14454 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  07:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
a mint employee is believed to have substituted in at least 20 other date $20 into the 1933 bags and extracted like number of 33's that were then sold? given? traded? to a local Philadelphia jeweler

From what I heard they were under lock and key and mint official George McCann who happened to have the key was friends with the jeweler smuggled out a few of them and sold them to jeweler and friend Israel Switt. In 1944 one of these coins was purchased by King Farouk of Egypt. King Farouk at that time was one of the world's most notorious playboys and a collector of almost everything. His four palaces were stuffed with his various acquisitions piled up in an almost haphazard fashion. Coins especially interested Farouk. As a collector he was aware that any gold coin taken out of the United States would need an export license. In February of 1944 after the king purchased the Double Eagle he had it sent to the Mint so the export license could be issued. Mint officials, who were probably not even aware that the 1933 Double Eagles had never been officially issued, granted the license and the coin was sent to Egypt on March 11th, 1944.


To the OP: if you actually want to know everything about the history of these 1933 coins this would be a good place to read http://www.unmuseum.org/doubleeagle.htm
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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 Posted 12/11/2008  09:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan, thanks for the you tube video, that was some great viewing, 6.6 million, on the phone, SOLD...
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exactly how many of these left the mint is uncertain. At one point some of them were actually in the US cash room where the general public could come and exchange coins so it is possible thatthey may have been handed out in exchange for other gold coins. In any case the mint records reports at all of them were melted down with none unaccounted for.

From 1933 through 1944 these coins were openly bought and sold and advertised. As mentioned Farouk bought one, applied for, and received an export permit for it. It was an auction for one in 1944 that that got the ball rolling about their legality. The secret service tracked then back to Izzy Swit who admitted to having sold nine of them. (Common belief among collectors ws that he had actually had 25 of them at one time.) But anyway he admitted to nine. The secret service tracked down the other eight and confiscated them, number nine being in Farouk's hands. And announced that all of the 1933 double eagles had been recored and all of the stolen 1933 double eagles had now been accounted for.

Then Eliasberg reveale that he had a 1933 double eagle and he requested to be allowed to keep it so thatthe only complete collection of coins could remain complete. this was denied and Eliasberg returned the tenth of the "nine stolen" coins and it was announced that all of the 1933 double eagle had now been accounted for.

In 2001 the so-called Farouk coin reappeared on the market and was confiscated and eventualy sold by the government and declared the only legal 1933 double eagle. I say so-called because some of those still living at the time who had seen the Farouk coin at the 1954 palace sale of his collection said that the Fenton coin conficated and sold by the government was not the same coin.

Then the Swit family turned up 10 more 1933 double eagles (I thought all of these were accounted for three times already?)

There is also a 1980 dated photo of one that does not match any of the Swit coins, the Smithsonian coins, or the Fenton coin And it can't be one of the other confiscated coins be cause other than the two that went to the Smithsonian they were all destroyed long before the 1980 photo was taken. (Since they are all accounted for where did this one come from?)

So that is nine confiscated, two sent to Smithsonian and seven destroyed. One sent to Farouk which may be the one legal pieces. Ten owned by the Swit family and confiscated by the government, and one known to exist by photo. That accounts for 21 coins. Twenty two if the Farouk and Fenton coins are not thesame one. So if the collectors of the day are right and Izzy had 25, there could still be three or four of them still out there. (Even though they have all been accounted for.)
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jbuck's Avatar
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187702 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very informative thread, thanks for starting the topic, rarecoin!
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rarecoin's Avatar
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 Posted 12/11/2008  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rarecoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks! What I heard (but did not recall at the time I started the thread) was that all but the Farouk coin were destroyed. It recently turned up in the auction mentioned, and sold for about $7 million (accidentally) to a government agent. The government will sell the coin, and give the seller at the auction half of whatever the lucky collector who gets the coin pays for it. As this is the only legal-to-own 1933 Double Eagle, its price will go way up in the next sale. I wish I could add that one to my collection!
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jfransch's Avatar
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1801 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I remember the story correctly (I'll have to find the book and review later) they were never in the cash room available for anyone to buy, that is the story the owners tried to use (including the current Switt Family heirs) to try and justify their coins. There were the ones sent for assay, and the rest were under constant lock and key. They were also never "publicly or openly traded". They were very clandestinely dribbled out onto the numismatic market to only the top players and only came to the attention of the government when one was offered in a public auction dispersal of a major collectors coins. The Treasury confiscated that one and then started trying to work backwards to find the leak. Every clue seemed to lead to Israel Switt (sp?) with eventually 8-10 coins being traced to him, one of which was the Farouk coin, by this time long gone to Egypt. The pedigree to Farouk is pretty solid, the coin having turned up with other known Farouk coins that were listed in the Farouk auction but not sold, and coming from an Egyptian family with high ranking military ties. Maybe someone on the forum could read the book, Illegal Tender and clarify all these versions of the story. When the "legal one" was sold, the government split the proceeds with the buyer and then the buyer had to give the government a symbolic $20 in cash to "monetize" the coin, there for making it legal to own. Should be interesting to see what it will sell for next time now that there are the other 10 coins making their way through the legal system.
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2008  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They were also never "publicly or openly traded".

I have seen the ads from the late 1930's offering them for sale, published in the Numismatic Scrapbook Magazine which was the top general public numismatic magazine of the day. This was a national circulation magazine, not a local. I don't know if they were offered in The Numismatist or not. (My set of Numismatic Scrapbooks is fairly complete from 1937 to 1964. My set of The Numismatists from that period is more sketchy.) Whether or not any of them actually sold through the ads I can't say, but they were openly offered.

I have read the books and I got the information that they had been in the Cash room from one of them. Which one I do not recall.
Edited by Conder101
12/11/2008 10:44 pm
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