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1859 1 Cent Or, Is It Possibly A 2 Cent Coin? Or Is It A Complete Fake?

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47P7's Avatar
Canada
1505 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  11:55 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Here is a challenge for you experts to analyze this 1859 cent.or is it 2 coins? or is it an experimental fake?
Or what is it, and how did this come to be?
I know some of you will probably use a common response: PMD. And without providing a supporting and understandable explanation in a discussion about why YOU know, not think, that it is PMD.
And then you drop it, walk away, not to touch the subject again, assuming everyone knows it now. However, that does not give us, who are "not so in the know people", an opportunity to learn from your large knowledge base and experience.
You might be right in some cases. But NOT every time.
This coin is most likely PMD. However, is it possible that it came out of the Mint this way? Perhaps as an experiment by employees?
I have turned and twisted this 59 upside down and backward, tried to break it apart, and stopped close from sawing it in half to see what it looks like inside. (which I might still do)
if it is PMD, it is most certainly not the average PMD product.
There are marks on it which look like clip marks? just wondering
Also wondering: IF it is 2 coins, can it be called a 2-cent coin?
Thanks for all your input and for helping to solve this mystery.
Have fun with it...

1859-1-Cent-Or,-Is-It-Possibly-A-2-Cent-Coin?-Or-Is-It-A-Complete-Fake?
1859-1-Cent-Or,-Is-It-Possibly-A-2-Cent-Coin?-Or-Is-It-A-Complete-Fake?
1859-1-Cent-Or,-Is-It-Possibly-A-2-Cent-Coin?-Or-Is-It-A-Complete-Fake?
1859-1-Cent-Or,-Is-It-Possibly-A-2-Cent-Coin?-Or-Is-It-A-Complete-Fake?
1859-1-Cent-Or,-Is-It-Possibly-A-2-Cent-Coin?-Or-Is-It-A-Complete-Fake?
1859-1-Cent-Or,-Is-It-Possibly-A-2-Cent-Coin?-Or-Is-It-A-Complete-Fake?
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JimmyD's Avatar
Canada
21611 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seeing that the weight of a 1859 copper cent should be 4.54g and is thicker than a normal cent, I would say that it is probably two coins pieced together for some reason.
Bill , our resident expert on Vickies hopefully will be along to voice his opinion.
Interesting find that should bring some discussion.
Edited by JimmyD
01/09/2021 1:00 pm
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5589 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a little large diameter and a little heavier than a standard '59, Helmut. Without seeing it in hand, I really can't tell you what's going on. I can say, reasonably, that it never left the mint like that. It has, what appear to be, vise or other compression device marks at 3 & 9:00. I would say that it started out as maybe a "sandwich" coin of some type that someone essentially ruined. A " Magician's coin" would be lighter than a single coin, so maybe the person got upset and joined the pieces. Then it looks like it was buried or soaked in something acidic.. It's a garage job of some kind
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 Posted 01/09/2021  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin was part of a collection I purchased from a local estate a while back. It was owned by a 98 year old fellow, so I assume there was no hankyPanky going on. There were no dremel tools in his times.

Bill, I understand what you are saying here.
question is still: how was this made..
In my mind two coins were joined together... maybe?
How ?
I tried to take best images to show details. There is a very slight irregular division mark visible around the rim. But it might be imagination only. I would think that if someone cuts two coins apart that it would be an evedn cut. maybe not.
It is definitely not a magic coin. it is solid, not hollow.
as far as the surface is concerned? yes, maybe buried? or some type of metal fusing together and it got too hot?
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 Posted 01/09/2021  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
cast fake imo
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10458 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
cast fake imo


Bingo! Looks just like the small handful of fake large cents that I have seen (and tested).
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 01/09/2021  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
H., the reason you are seeing the double rim is I believe where the mold came apart. You were on the right track with heat.
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 Posted 01/09/2021  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I have my foot in my mouth. I'd never seen anything like it and cast fake never entered my mind. Good eyes, guys!
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 Posted 01/09/2021  6:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all.
Great posts and I think you guys came up with the solution.
Whoever made these molds must have had endless time and a lot of patience. IMO they must have used real coins to make their molds.
But, WHY 1 cent if they could have done a 58 or 20 cents?

Bill, we are in the same boat. Had no idea, as I had never seen one before. And it looks like MM is now promoted to detective.

Now here is the big question: what is this piece of metal worth and is it legal to sell?
How rare is something like that?
Edited by 47P7
01/09/2021 6:35 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2021  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
you know the rules on selling fakes.......give it to me......LOLOL
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