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Question About Foreign Users Of Usd

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markwinston's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 12/18/2008  10:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add markwinston to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Newbie to the forum but long-time collector.

I was curious if anyone has any insight on how the Fed or Treasury cooperate with non-US territories that use the USD as domestic currency, such as Panama and Ecuador: lots of coins and notes are needed obviously in these economies, so I assume that the governments of these states exchange reserves from local banks for dollars? I've always been curious how this works and have found no resources on Google searches.

I'm curious mainly because I'd like to research how this affects collectibility of US currency by absorbing weak demand for certain mintages or notes.
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GO's Avatar
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 Posted 12/18/2008  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Check GO's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Have yet to find proof to back this up but it's been said there is more US notes all over the world then there is in the US

But I'm assuming half of it's counterfeit anyways
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wd1040's Avatar
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 Posted 12/18/2008  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I assume that the governments of these states exchange reserves from local banks for dollars


These countries maintain such usage by holding almost all of their national reserves in Dollars or in T-notes. By maintaining so much money in the resrves, these countries guarantee to their citizens that they can use the Dollar.


Quote:
how this affects collectibility of US currency by absorbing weak demand for certain mintages or notes


This collectibility part is almost negligible if you compare with the total cash supply flowing around (M1 v M2 holdings) but I'm not sure I understand your question.

hope this can help!
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markwinston's Avatar
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 Posted 12/18/2008  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markwinston to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand that they hold reserves, but reserves are usually in the form of TNotes or electronic reserves/securities. What I'm curious of is, since these states do not have authority to manufacture their own coins and notes, do they just make an exchange from their reserves to the Fed for coins and notes for circulation?

In the US the Fed manages circulation by holding domestic banks' reserves, but how does this work when the circulating entity is another government rather than a regulated domestic bank? I would assume that the foreign country has to work with the Fed and Treasury to coordinate this as the transfer of a large amount of foreign-manufactured circulating currency can't be a simple logistical task.

The second part of my question was related to a story I read that Ecuador had large circulation of the Dollar coin and I was curious how much demand this was absorbing both for that specific specie and for others that are used by Dollar-circulating non-US countries.
Edited by markwinston
12/18/2008 11:08 pm
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wd1040's Avatar
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 Posted 12/19/2008  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I understand that they hold reserves, but reserves are usually in the form of TNotes or electronic reserves/securities. What I'm curious of is, since these states do not have authority to manufacture their own coins and notes, do they just make an exchange from their reserves to the Fed for coins and notes for circulation?


I think they have a special deal with the fed to exchange their holdings into currency. They probably get their holdings through dollar-denominating all their trades, and so when they have that many reserves, they cash it into the bank (the fed) for currency.

I think this system of trading money regulates the money supply more than the government itself could (the foreign gov) if it printed its own currency because this is one of their primary sources: through legal trades and little or no manipulation.

Yeah, I read about the Ecuadorian Sacagawea story too... probably because the fed only supplies them with the coins that we don't spend!
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MorganNoob's Avatar
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 Posted 12/19/2008  5:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorganNoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They don't use actual US bills and coins there do they? I always assumed that they had their own currency, only its value was tied to the USD. (Ex. 1 Panama Dollar = X GB pounds & also 1 USD = X GB pounds) Is this incorrect?
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biokemist6's Avatar
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 Posted 12/19/2008  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Ecuadorians love Sacagawea dollars and the US Dollar is the the official currency of Ecuador.
http://www.coinworld.com/news/071502/news-2.asp
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 12/19/2008  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They don't use actual US bills and coins there do they? I always assumed that they had their own currency, only its value was tied to the USD. (Ex. 1 Panama Dollar = X GB pounds & also 1 USD = X GB pounds) Is this incorrect?

It depends on the country. Some use actual US coins and notes (such as Ecuador, where your much-despised dollar coins are happily circulating). East Timor uses US paper money, but has their own circulating coinage, denominated in centavos; I believe Ecuador does likewise.

Other countries have tied their currency to the US dollar at a 1:1 ratio, so US$1 equals 1 whatzit locally (the Bermudan dollar is a good example of this).

Still other countries are pegged at other rates. The Saudi Arabian riyal is pegged at SR3.75 : US$1. In El Salvador, the colon is pegged at C8.75 : US$1 but in practice, only the US dollar can be found on the streets.

Most other currencies are free-floating; their value in US dollars goes up and down with the changing circumstances of the economies of the two countries.

Quote:
I'd like to research how this affects collectibility of US currency by absorbing weak demand for certain mintages or notes.

I assume that what you're interested in here is, "Were there any entire batches of US coins or notes that were shipped overseas, making them rare here at home but common elsewhere?".

I'm not aware of this occurring. The US economy is so large, it needs the Mint and the Federal Reserve to be constantly churning out new coins and notes, to replace old and damaged ones. Foreign demand would be only a tiny fraction of this amount.

But that doesn't mean it can't happen. It's certainly happened in the British coin series, back when Britain owned an economic empire; for example, the entire mintage of 1950 and 1951 British pennies were shipped off for use on the British colony of Bermuda. They're fairly common in the US (and presumably on Bermuda) but very rarely seen in Britain itself.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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markwinston's Avatar
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 Posted 12/20/2008  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markwinston to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I assume that what you're interested in here is, "Were there any entire batches of US coins or notes that were shipped overseas, making them rare here at home but common elsewhere?"


You read my mind. I know that Ecuador and Panama both use actual Fed notes, but being a pretty ardent non-traveller I've been trying to research whether they use common circulating notes which are undifferentiatable (ww?) from US-circulating notes or if the Fed ships them an identifiable batch to better control the flow of cash money. It sounds like the common thread here is that there is one batch of currency produced by Fed/Treas and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between what's in your wallet/pocket and what's in the wallet/pocket of Ecuadorans (except maybe the coins).

What's interesting here is: does the Fed/Treas have any control over the coinage in these countries? Theoretically, they're using USD to avoid undermining their own currency and yet if they're locally producing lots of coin, they are still manipulating the money supply in a way not controllable by the US economy. If Panama decided to mint trillions of local quarters wouldn't things get much more expensive there in USD terms despite the USD being official currency?
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United States
303 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2008  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hc8604 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the US Mint mints coins for Panama. The coins are the same weight, diameter and composition, but with different designs. My coin dealer got two Panama dimes and I told him they were the exact same weight as our coins. He said, well I will just spend them at the coke machine.

This may somewhat answer if the US control the amount coins are minted. I don't think minting a few extra coins considering Panama has a way smaller population of about 3.3Million.

http://www.panama-guide.com/article...001030/print
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DNA's Avatar
United States
2734 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2008  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DNA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh man, Ecuador took 500,000,000 of our year-2000 Sacagawea dollars!

That leaves only 786,056,000 of them for us!

What are we going to do?!

It would be tempting to go to Ecuador and spend a few 2001-up Sac's and give some people there a real 'find' in their change!
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