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1974 Kennedy Half Dollar No FG

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Pillar of the Community
United States
721 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2021  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Minnimarine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So that 1966 is a no FG with the G that even I would not consider, but there must be something for all involved at PCSG to make that coin a noFG variety. I read what you posted above earlier today and I wanted to be clear on no trace of FG. I have Kennedy's with no F and some with no G. They also look like a poorly minted half dollar. So with that much polishing of the die, would you even consider having a coin like that graded?
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2021  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...but there must be something for all involved at PCSG to make that coin a noFG variety.

I can only guess from their multiple times of breaking of their own rules, that either they are NOT doing what they claim and assigning expert Kennedy specialist graders, or else the graders simply look at the variety attribution the person sending in the coins is PAYING PCGS to assigning on the label, and don't worry about whether or not they see the initial (as in "no trace").

1966 SMS No FG:
Note some of the 1966 No FGs do look pretty devoid of the FG, but I just went back and viewed all the ones listed on PCGS:
https://www.PCGS.com/coinfacts/coin...mages/411636

1974--Kennedy-Half-Dollar-No-FG

I noticed every single 1966 SMS No FG listed on which you can clearly see the "initials area" (which is almost all of them), there is a small dot where the tail end of the G is located on a normal half. When you zoom in on all those pics, and compare them to a normal FG 1966, you can see the dot is exactly where the G's end would be and also see a very, very faint G outline where it was polished off.

So it appears the 1966 No FG SMS is also a polishing issue and not an actual die error. The sub-devices though are not all that polished-off looking, but I am assuming the SMS coins, like proofs were double struck and so the strike looks better (comments please coop)?

1972-D No FG:
I took a fast look at the 1972-D No FGs again and found the sub-details surrounding the "initials area" are pretty worn on these. Hence it seem like the 1972-D is not a true error either. Just die polishing.
1974--Kennedy-Half-Dollar-No-FG
Some of these seem not to have a trace of the polished off initials.


Quote:
I have Kennedy's with no F and some with no G. They also look like a poorly minted half dollar. So with that much polishing of the die, would you even consider having a coin like that graded?

Since the companies have a terrible track record of calling many coins with obvious remnants, and sometimes full letters, a No FG variety, I personally would not send one in for grading. After all, unless you just like to collect slabs or just like the holders, the only other reason to slab a coin is to try to make a profit when selling.
Slabbed coins can bring a premium with sold...and as in the case of the not-really-no No FG halves get taken for sometimes thousand depending on the grade on the slab.

Real No FGs:
So what makes a literal No FG error?
With the new info above, it seems the 1982 P No FG is the only true mint error No FG since it appears the die never had the initials engraved into it. When looking at the listed ones on PCGS, some can be found with decent details in the "initials area," hence die polishing was not the culprit.

...but if a half of another date was made where the initial were polished off, and there is no trace whatsoever, then the half has actually does not have an FG. But I think it would be good if these were labeled as "Polished Off Initials," or "Polished off FG," instead of simply calling them a No FG and confusing them with actual errors.



How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2021  02:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Early42, in your article you told us very well and clear. Two three years ago I have one which TPG wrote is normal, this was correct because some parts of FG was there. Then I send in bulk of approx. 40 coins to a auction house. They have 'it my consent to recertificate and by my surprise come back "NO FG" !!!! was sold more then 3 times the really price. All coins together was valuable for the fact was like a set and high grade.

This confirm that no grader will assign 3 employees to grade one coin. I own company, do you thing I will charge the customer 30$ and pay 50 or more $ in labor for one coin? I think you have the answer.

You are right. My last mentor (god keep him in pace), told me: You have 2 masters and now you will finish a Ph. I am sorry for you but from now you will understand that you are more stupid, idiot and un-educated then ever in your life. (end of quote)

Congrats for your article.
Edited by silviosi
03/11/2021 02:10 am
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2021  02:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well being a true variety collector, the attempted push to sell off polished dies devices, to me is a sham to get people to buy what others are selling. Remember the States quarter junk that was sold off by giving something a name, to sell off stuff to entice collectors to buy and sell. Where's it today? The market was hot, now it's not. I feel that so much coinage is being held out as the holy grail, when it is really over polished sham. The graders are getting rich pushing over polished dies issues, making them out as missing or forgotten ad. Was never o the die.going back to 1922-D, missing D. The three legged buffalo, peg legs, these'FG' missing initials, missing initials on the cents and floating roof. Who makes out like a bandit one these? The grading companies. I try to educate on the point of varieties, that are created on the dies, from coin one. Soon the message will get through to the collectors, about the over polishing problem, is giving a false hope. When it sinks in, that the dies that created this missing devices we polished down, and they stop collecting them, like the States quarters. The stuff they bought up as a slab, guaranteed by a source authenticated as such, will see a lot of collectors unhappy. So I speak up about this.
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2021  02:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop you are right. I feel bad for who buy those coins, but me I was just an outsider after I give the coins to the auction house. Me I do not believe to much in grading company. The catalogs give you prices for graded note or coins, which are far from the price you pay for certification. they collaborate in my opinion.

I will have another auction on April. I fell bad that to be sell and attract the customers the auction house recertificate. the prices will be high, I know, but bottom will cost me 3K in certification.

Coop, people buy slabs not artifacts.
Edited by silviosi
03/11/2021 03:01 am
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2021  03:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me, if I buy a slab, I only pay book prices. Nothing extra for a slab. Also the saying: "Buy the coin, not the plastic." I've seen a few times the graders were wrong. Sometimes they graded by false markers. They short cut the customer. Put out a slab that someone will get burned on.
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2021  04:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice
Pillar of the Community
United States
721 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2021  07:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Minnimarine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read that earlier yesterday researching the no FG. Most of these half dollars I have are polished so much that the coins just look horrible. Now if I find one with no trace of the FG I would want to send it into PCGS to have there 4 experts and graders to confirm it is a no FG variety. Would the polishing of the die have an effect on the grade? What I see is alot of coins from this $500 box of Kennedy's that look so bad. I even had a WDDO-001 Best of, but the polishing ruin most of the letters and made it worthless to me. I know I wouldnt by that in that condition.
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2021  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@silviosi
First, thank you for your kind comments.
You said:

Quote:
Early42, in your article you told us very well and clear. Two three years ago I have one which TPG wrote is normal, this was correct because some parts of FG was there. Then I send in bulk of approx. 40 coins to a auction house. They have 'it my consent to recertificate and by my surprise come back "NO FG" !!!! was sold more then 3 times the really price. All coins together was valuable for the fact was like a set and high grade.


I want to thank you for this input. And please forgive me b/c your English is good, but I want to make sure I completely understand what you are saying.

1. You had a half dollar and sent it in to be certified as No FG. They did not certify it b/c the remnants of the FG were still there.
2. You sent the same half, and some other coins to an auction house and consented to have them recertify the half dollar.
3. The half dollar came back as No FG this time.

The reason I am making absolutely sure I understand is b/c I likely will use your example by adding it into my notes and possibly a future revision of the essay. I also will make a link to this thread to reference on this forum and others concerning the No FG problem so others can learn. Thank you for your help and understanding in this.

@everyone here:
I know this was not my thread to start, but I wanted to say I appreciate the input here from everyone. It made me go back and look to see if the 66's and verify the 72-Ds were also. For some reason I was thinking it would take a lot more time b/c I wanted to snapshot them all like I did before. But this is not necessary since anyone can access the page and see for themselves. So one picture with the link so anyone can see the rest of them is good enough. Although I admit I am tempted to snapshot them anyway in case the facts start to circulate widely and PCGS decides to take the pictures down b/c their reputation is definitely clashing with what their claims are and that could lead to a loss in profits.

I admit my initial thoughts were the 1966 was a legit error just from reading online about Kennedy halves. But the facts show otherwise.

And I certainly agree with coop about who gets money from all of this. I cannot imagine how many people actually send in their coins, paying for the service, to have a coin labeled by "experts" (maybe experts at making profit!) for what it is not.

I admit I just like the looks of the 1972-D when you cannot find any remnant whatsoever of the initials, and I have at least one I found myself. But it will be labeled as "Polished Off FG" in my set.

And until just last night, I was thinking of getting one of the 1966s. But knowing its polished off, I certainly won't pay a premium for a non-error.

I admit if PCGS would simply be honest and slab the non-errors as polished dies, I would not have a problem b/c it would be factual.

And again I cannot prove PCGS does not stick to their claims of having 3-4 graders (specifically Kennedy specialists) grade each alleged No FG half. But it sure seems ridiculous that that many graders looking at each coin, and having a reputation as the most prominent coin experts in the hobby can make so many bad, and very costly to their faithful hobbyist followers, mistakes.

The more I research these companies trying to find out legitimate facts, the more kinks in their armor keep showing up. Very costly kinks for hobbyists who trust them.


How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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