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 Replies: 24 / Views: 5,359 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
721 Posts |
What are the specifications on this? I read no trace, and cant be seen through a 5x lens. I will say no on mine but close though.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1498 Posts |
My first thought is that the reverse strike was from a terribly worn die — note the weakness of "HALF" and other parts of the design. Thus, I'm not surprised no FG is visible, given the end-stage die.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
721 Posts |
That's what I was thought, but there cant be any trace of the fg right? That would be from over polishing right?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
This one would probably be interesting to a new collector as the explanation of what the missing/weakened devices are from die polishing. Another "show and tell" coin as an educational piece.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Sorry, but there is a ghosted G there on your coin. You can see a slightly darker area where the G was polished off.
If you read the link in my signature about the No FGs, you will find pictures of what a legit No FG looks like. You will also find the grading companies do not follow their own rules when assigning a coin as a No FG.
As far as I have been able to find anywhere, the only year for circuation issues that a die was used without the initials engraved into it was 1982.
Thus a theory I have also encountered saying any year can have the No FG missing seems plausible. I have found ghosted FGs on many.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2Edited by Earle42
03/09/2021 11:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
721 Posts |
I just read about 1974D with no trace of FG from over polishing and over zealous employees. I figured mine would be as coop described just a show and tell type. I have a couple like this. How long would they use a die like this? At one point they would have to see the coins ain't looking that good at this point.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
721 Posts |
@Earle42 that was interesting reading your link. I would not even have considered that 1966 as a no fg. Just like I didnt consider the one I posted, and I am absolutely a well uneducated to coins. Funny that 4 experts let that go considering the handful I found with no F's or hardly traces of th FG. I would think 4 experts would have alot of explaining to do.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
@Minniemarine you said: Quote:
@Earle42 that was interesting reading your link. I would not even have considered that 1966 as a no fg. Just like I didn't consider the one I posted, and I am absolutely a well uneducated to coins. As a teacher, I always told my students that the day any of us gives up the "title" of being uneducated is the day we find we know nothing at all. My Karate instructor echoed this idea when he would say his black belt meant he was finally was at the point to start learning Karate. I find anyone having a doctorate in a subject who understands the title also says this. Quote:
Funny that 4 experts let that go considering the handful I found with no F's or hardly traces of th FG. I would think 4 experts would have a lot of explaining to do. Not only "experts," since the companies train and say all their graders are experts, but also allegedly expert graders with Kennedy specific expertise. Being fair here...in another post I made concerning the links in my signature, a CCF member told me the graders only grade and another specified person does the assigning of all varieties. However, I have been looking and can find no reference whatsoever to this in the description PCGS gives. Until I can find documentation supporting this idea, I have to go with what PCGS says - three expert Kennedy experts graded this and the slab shows these expert Kennedy specialists said these coins were "No FGs." And, like you said, if rookies such as us can see the obvious non-rare mislabeling of these coins...how in the world can the PCGS claims be true? We cannot PROVE the claims are not true b/c we cannot witness and document either way. But when it quacks and looks like a duck... How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
@coop Great graphics and info (as always!). I have spent a lot of time online reading about JFK halves over the years and from that reading was under the impression that the 1966 No FG was from a die without the initials engraved. But as you said, when I was looking closely at the area of these coins (every single one PCGS has pics of) where the FG is missing, the sub-devices are not crisp, but look polished/worn. I am puzzled by this seeing the SMS was a special issue akin to a proof. Does this mean SMS dies were polished? I may be wrong, but I don't think modern proof dies are polished to get rid of clashing, are they? Unfortunately I did think about looking at the wear on the devices on the 72-Ds when going over every pic. I would assume they all would have to have wear on the sub-devices as well. I need to find the time to go back through and check every picture again for every PCGS listed Pic of a NO FG to compare the wear in these areas. Anyone else want to do it?  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
One more thing: Although PCGS does not seem to know it, every 1982 Kennedy half where the numeral 1 in the dat his sans serif also has absolutely no trace of the FG. This seems to point out a different dies set was used to make these coins. Though anyone into Kennedy halves soon finds this out (I was shown this here on CCF), it seems something often missed (and therefore a costly error to trusting hobbyists) by the experts in grading companies.   How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Thanks coop - this means the SMS No FGs might just be polished off also. Again, I need to take the time to go back and study it. Not sure when I will though!
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
No, they can be just as easily as all half dollar reverses. They are part of the design, no engraving is done on them. If you remove them by polishing the die, they can be polished off.  Did you notice on the last two images, how thin the other devices are on both sides of the coin. That was from the die polishing removing the fields of the die. The devices are tapered and when the polishing cuts to deep, then the devices suffer like in my illustration above. Edited by coop
03/10/2021 4:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
721 Posts |
The Marines thought the only stupid question is one not asked. So I'm gonna ask if the die is polished that the fg is no longer present, would that be considered as a no fg? I still have not looked through the stack of 1972s and 82s. Now I'm curious.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Lets' see what the "athorities" say on the subject - a direct quotation from the essay linked in my signature: Quote: Online resources indicate no trace of the designer's initials is a must for a coin if that coin is to be acknowledged as an actual No FG variety: 1. Coinage: accessed 9/3/20 https://www.coinagemag.com/no-fg-ke...circulation/"To qualify as a no-FG variety, the Kennedy half must not show any evidence of the FG initials whatsoever." 2. US COin Guide: accessed 9/3/20 https://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/...llar-errors/"For a coin to be a true no FG half dollar error, it has to have absolutely no sign of the FG at all. Not even a trace under 5x magnification!" {emphasis added} 3. COINWEEK: Acessed 9/3/20 https://coinweek.com/dealers-compan...-they-worth/" If the FG initials can't be found under 5x magnification, then the coin is a No FG variety. However, there must be no trace of the FG initials - light indications of the lettering do not count as a No FG variety, and numismatists don't presently recognize "Weak FG" as a variety." {emphasis added} 4. PCGS: accessed 9/3/20 https://www.PCGS.com/news/what-are-...ollars-worth " If the FG initials can't be found under 5x magnification, then the coin is a No FG variety. However, there must be no trace of the FG initials - light indications of the lettering do not count as a No FG variety, and numismatists don't presently recognize "Weak FG" as a variety." {emphasis added}. Note this example was quoted by item #3 in COINWEEK. Other such references to the mandatory "no trace of the FG initials" as qualifications for a No FG variety are not difficult to find with a search engine. So despite what the experts say...slabs show the rules are not followed. |
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Replies: 24 / Views: 5,359 |
Posted 03/09/2021 10:02 pm
