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Storage Damage And A Quest To Have That Sorted For Good - In Depth Explaini

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New Member
Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  07:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There is also a lot to be said on not storing dissimilar metals together.

Small silica gel desiccant packets are cheap and readily available.

You can slip them right in the baggies.


that much I know and always avoided contact of any sort between the main categories of metals. That being said, I've never differentiated between the bronze quality in a follis and a 400 years earlier shekel. I might give it a go with the silica packs (not sure how they will fit in the bag), but I do want to know if there is anything that I can do to clean/salvage them or not allow that to spread further

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Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  08:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi molydeii

I am still keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that there is a way to salvage as many as possible

I used to do the capsules as well, but gave up on them fairly quick. They were considerably pricier, had no room to write on them and you needed a whole lot of specific types and sizes (collecting them was as much of a "chore" as collecting the actual coins back in the days)

Most likely these days they are way more widely spread and easier to get, but sadly I would not be able to afford that kind of commitment (especially in the current economic context and with the size of the endeavor),hence I am looking for the most affordable fix as well. Otherwise, I'd do a whole lot for my coins, but I do have to prioritize and as of now certain elements,like family, come way ahead of them.

Denmark is famous for its high humidity, but we've always had a few dehumidifiers in the house (especially because of my missus' work) and I would like to believe that there was never the case of extreme humidity around my work room and definitely not where the coins where stored. Before the kids, I used to spent more time in taking care of the coins than of my woman...

And it's nice to see appreciation for the danish coins from the outside. I do like them, but I guess I look at them differently. Now that you say it though, they are some of the better "built" coins out there (not that much about the design though).

New Member
Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ziplock bags are definitely not 100% barriers against moisture.
I work at place the manufactures materials that can be extremely hygroscopic. If we would seal these things into ziplock bags the materials would have gone bad within 24 hours to the point there is nothing left but a pile of white dust.
The only way to store things properly, devoid of oxygen and moisture, are evacuated Mylar bags or in an Argon-purged glovebox. The drawbacks are that most people don't have a glovebox at home and Mylar bags are opaque. Can't see your coin.
I think the best and most practical storage solution is to have your coins properly slabbed by NGC or PCGS.


What is that white powder? does it spread? how does it affect the metal? can it be cleaned?

I apologize if I flood with my questions. I am really curious to understand what has actually happened to them

and I would love to have them slabbed, but I simply cannot afford that :( the scale and the costs of doing that in Denmark is beyond ridiculous (it'd take a few kidneys and the house to pay for a 10th of the collection).
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7962 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First, the older stiffer bags are probably made from LLDPE which is stiffer than LDPE. LDPE used to be more expensive, but advances in manufacturing technology changed that.

Slip agents are fatty amides, not soluble in water, but should be soluble in isopropanol. https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/co...n=Solubility

I neglected to mention that one other substance often present in plastics in very small amounts are metal stearates (usually calcium stearate). This could also contribute to a white deposit (it's more commonly known as "soap scum" in our bathtubs). This would be hard to remove: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/co...n=Solubility
Household chemicals that dissolve it contain acids and should not be used on coins.





Edited by tdziemia
03/19/2021 08:48 am
New Member
Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@westcoin

Thank you so much for the explanation and potential solutions (this forum is a proper gold mine and it actually helped me push the sorrow away)

are the archival poly bags the same as the LDPE bags? because those I have plenty of (one of the reasons why I started transferring the coins from 2x2s to those - little did I know... - the other being the fact that I could write on them and in doing that catalogue the coins digitally)

However, some of the coins that got into trouble, were stored in exactly those kind of bags (albeit, some of the bags seemed made from softer plastic than some others, even though the supplier was the same). The bag in the picture is of one of those LDPEs

Those flannel envelopes look good and I use something similar at work, but that'll imply that I'd have to revert to using 2x2s

Having dealt with quite a few auction houses, I've also noticed that quite a big chunk (way more than the slabbed ones) of them use those little plastic envelopes that are clearly not air tight and the coins seem to endure. Have quite a few fortunate examples, which makes me scratch my head even harder.

I usually try to keep it simple for anything older than a specific timeline (I know it's dumb) so depending on the state, I will use anything from just water (and soap) to lengthy soaking in olive oil (the one that works the best for mild cleaning), baking powder+water, vinegar and used to do the ultra-sound cleaning for the ones that I dug out myself (which just happens to be the case of the one that came out of the bag in the picture)

My initial thought was also spores and my missus even made a joke saying that it's great now that I've brought anthrax inside the house, but at a closer look it doesn't seem like it'd be that. That being said, I have no way to check whether it is that or not...or I don't know any way to do it.

I've read about the acetone trick, but waited for someone to bring it up and assure me that I wouldn't be doing something even dumber.

And I do have quite a few unopened intercept albums and a few slips, but in knowing so little, I always thought a closed bag would protect better than an open slip (which also made me confident that they were easier to store). It kind of acted as the catalyst for going forward with the bags



New Member
Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
First, the older stiffer bags are probably made from LLDPE which is stiffer than LDPE. LDPE used to be more expensive, but advances in manufacturing technology changed that.

Slip agents are fatty amides, not soluble in water, but should be soluble in isopropanol. https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/co...n=Solubility

I neglected to mention that one other substance often present in plastics in very small amounts are metal stearates (usually calcium stearate). This could also contribute to a white deposit (it's more commonly known as "soap scum" in our bathtubs). This would be hard to remove: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/co...n=Solubility
Household chemicals that dissolve it contain acids and should not be used on coins.


I shall try the acetone trick, now that you guys have given me a boost

If that doesn't remove it, is there a way to identify what the white substance is with just regular household tools/substances?

Alternatively, I was thinking of testing the bags themselves somehow
New Member
Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hi @westcoin

apparently my baby status doesn't allow me to message you, but I would be very much interested in those articles
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7962 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The only way to store things properly, devoid of oxygen and moisture, are evacuated Mylar bags or in an Argon-purged glovebox.


Mylar is still slightly permeable to both oxygen and water vapor. Over not-so-long periods of time (days to weeks), they would enter your sealed bag. Metallized plastic films are much better, but of course then you can;t see your coins.
New Member
Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
after more research (I know...having no life here)
I think I might have found it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_dise ASE
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Dearborn's Avatar
United States
97831 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2021  11:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ bw1001, you could also use a desiccant pack in the bags with your coins to collect any moisture left in the bags due to humidity issues.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9795 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2021  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
hi @westcoin
apparently my baby status doesn't allow me to message you, but I would be very much interested in those articles


I can e-mail you then, but you need to go to your profile and turn on accept message/email requests. Don't worry no spam have I ever got from here after allowing on my profile for over 6 years now. Bobby runs a tight ship here.

"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
New Member
Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2021  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Dearborn

Already ordered them

now I need to detect all the affected coins (my slight colorblindness doesn't help at all) and find a way to clean them
New Member
Denmark
29 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2021  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bw1001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@westcoin

done! :)

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molydeii's Avatar
Turkey
870 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2021  08:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add molydeii to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
bw1001 : How did your restoration go? any updates?
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