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 Replies: 28 / Views: 4,453 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
By "working punch" do you mean the "hub" and/or the matrix or submatrix? My visual of a "punch" is a single letter or digit to correct a working die.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1186 Posts |
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By "working punch" do you mean the "hub" and/or the matrix or submatrix? My visual of a "punch" is a single letter or digit to correct a working die. Okiecoiner, Hopefully this will help  The image above was intended for explaining doubled dies but also serves its purpose of showing the order in which the dies go. Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024) Edited by JohnWayne007
10/31/2021 5:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
Thanks. My move North of the border in '97 continues to cause me grief.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
Thanks for the in depth I was not aware of this process of master die to a working die. I'll check my 2008s when I get them sorted:)I would think you would need millions of confirmed coins to actually judge this kind of thing as a working hub issue and not a working die issue, depending on the years mintage and roughly how many working dies the mint used that year
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts |
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I would think you would need millions of confirmed coins to actually judge this kind of thing as a working hub issue and not a working die issue, depending on the years mintage and roughly how many working dies the mint used that year Wrekkdd, One might think so, however, 50+ examples of each, are more than sufficient enough to come to the conclusion of being subject to broken serifs on the working punch and not a grease/plugged die issue on the working die. Once you fully understand the hubbing process in order to create the dies from the Master Die to the Working Dies, you come across many different ways a variety can occur. Fun fact/example of how thorough I am when it comes to my research without steering too far off-topic... There are 3 consecutive years for the small cent that are the result of Master Die doubling that I discovered, which means there are exactly 279,952,399 Million Master Die Doubled examples that nobody had any idea about for over 15 years except for me and one other forum member that I showed. Although master die doubling is not rare or even worth a premium, it's still the fact that a full blown run for 3 years straight went completely unnoticed this long, there is also one key aspect which 100% confirms this without a doubt, but I am not ready to share that information yet on here as it is going to be included in my book but I'm sure many will find interesting. In my book I extensively explain how to tell the difference between Master Die Doubling, Machine Doubling, Die Deterioration Doubling and Genuine Doubled Dies before the included listings. Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024) Edited by JohnWayne007
10/31/2021 10:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
I'm sure your correct about this, a broken post on a working die could creat thousands or tens of thousands of a specific variety but a working hub error would creat much more. A working master die issue would show on every coin unless replaced itself. All this is beyond my knowledge. I do really hope to have your book in hand in the future. Edit: on a side note based on numbers would the square H Many 2019 be considered a variety based on the amount seen?I feel out of the 1-200 I have looked at( I don't look at dimes normally) at least 1/5 were squares and another chunk of them half filled H. I just though it was Die Deterioration like filled mint marks on USA coins. Edited by Wrekkdd
10/31/2021 10:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4404 Posts |
There's some good examples of this on US coins, though I don't recall any recent ones. The broken R hub on the 1936 cents is probably the most obvious and well known. But lesser known is the broken second T in TRUST on one or more of the 1941 cent hubs. There are a number of 1941 dies found to have been made with two different hubs, one with a broken T and one without, leaving a dozen or so doubled die varieties. DDO-013 is my favorite: http://www.varietyvista.com/01a%20L...1PDDO013.htm |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts |
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I do really hope to have your book in hand in the future. PDF copies will be available in the next few days and I will have a link for where to find it, as well as the ISBN number for those who shop brick and mortar stores and want the paperback. Quote:
on a side note based on numbers would the square H Many 2019 be considered a variety based on the amount seen? Yes, it would be a minor one, since some working punches were subject to a die break on the middle bar of the "H" and some weren't, you technically have different varieties, the middle bar of the "H" was broken and over the course of the dies life it wore out into a square, and that is why you will find some with part of the post missing and some progressing into a square. Quote: The broken R hub on the 1936 cents is probably the most obvious and well known. But lesser known is the broken second T in TRUST on one or more of the 1941 cent hubs. There are a number of 1941 dies found to have been made with two different hubs, one with a broken T and one without, leaving a dozen or so doubled die varieties. DDO-013 is my favorite: http://www.varietyvista.com/01a%20L...1PDDO013.htm Tanman2001, I'm not sure why but I always found broken punches/hubs interesting even know not many actually care for them, to me it is one of those varieties that are under-appreciated. That "T" in trust for the 1941 DDO-013 is wild, I like it, thanks for sharing that! Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024) |
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
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There are 3 consecutive years for the small cent that are the result of Master Die doubling that I discovered, I am curious... which three years are those? (Or do we have to wait for the book?) "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
Spoiler alert? Lol. I'll be getting the physical copy. Not a huge fan of online books.
Edit: haven't looked in a while but I was for a while thinking I noticed a master hub doubling on the 2009 cent. But that was pre my microscope. I haven't re checked my newer cents(nothing post 1980) since I got it except the odd one or two that made it into my older pile.
Edited by Wrekkdd
11/01/2021 2:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts |
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I am curious... which three years are those? (Or do we have to wait for the book?) SPP-Ottawa, I thought it was you I shared this with but looking through my emails I realize I never showed you photos, just sent you a couple of snippets, I don't plan to publicly release the specific dates until after my book is out. Quote:
haven't looked in a while but I was for a while thinking I noticed a master hub doubling on the 2009 cent. But that was pre my microscope. I haven't re checked my newer cents(nothing post 1980) since I got it except the odd one or two that made it into my older pile. Wrekkdd, 2009 cent doesn't have any doubling present that I am aware of, I can however tell you a small spoiler, the 2009 dime has lots of master die doubling on the reverse! Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024) |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
Out of every coin I have looked at closely dimes are on the back of the list. I have been two bust with life lately to have time to even search my coins much. Posting is easy because I have to always be on my phone for a huge chunk of the day(you wouldn't expect this at my kind of job but I'm also the one that is called for all special projects at the hospital). For example today I had to drop my normal job for 3 hours to set up a special room for a family to be there while a loved one passed away with, I was not as busy during covid but it's been picking up with the slight restriction ease up.
With family on too of that my actual search time has decreased by a lot but my research time has gained hours.
Anyways, in vary slowly going back through my 1cent coins and am fairly sure I remember many budds that had the same minor doubling.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1159 Posts |
Managed to check the end coins in the new mint cases that I had put away and yes I found all 3 varieties. When I put these away it was over the course of the year 2008 so the case has the full variety in it none are mixed. I like these varieties very much.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 4,453 |
First Page
Posted 10/31/2021 5:32 pm
