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Chinese Lot

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jlcarvoeiro's Avatar
Portugal
130 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  7:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jlcarvoeiro to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Can somebody help me with this lot? They are chinese but I need some more information.Thank you for your help.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/...em178ja3.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/...em163wp8.jpg
Edited by jlcarvoeiro
12/28/2008 7:36 pm
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wd1040's Avatar
United States
3098 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They're Chinese Cash coins from before 1911 at the latest.

Yours range from 1500s to the 1800s, and from the looks of it, most of them are authentic.

!, and oh yeah, 1000 of these equaled a silver ingot.
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wd1040's Avatar
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3098 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wait... scratch that.

Your Tianyuan is from the 1200s. (first coin on the upper left)

Good lot! Mind if I ask you where you got it?
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jlcarvoeiro's Avatar
Portugal
130 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jlcarvoeiro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A client of mine lived in China for a long time and he gave them to me.For free :)
But can somebody give me more details in Dinatys and Kingdoms.
Edited by jlcarvoeiro
12/28/2008 7:53 pm
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16842 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that's a lot of cash. These aren't all you're normal late Empire types that are most commonly seen. There are some, true, but there's quite a few older Song Dynasty types there, too. There might be a couple of Annamese types there, as well. It's going to take quite a while for me to look them all up; I don't have the free time today to do it, but I'll post again when I can.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think they are not authentic. I have seen similar coins and these are made the same way as the olden times (casting) and then they bury it to make it look authentic. You can buy these coins by the dozens in hollywood road in hong kong.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They all look good to me, very nice group of coins.
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jlcarvoeiro's Avatar
Portugal
130 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jlcarvoeiro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe that they are all authentic and i´ve been told that they were.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most of the coins looks like it has been made to look circulated after being buried, with the cement only in the center. It's only my own observation, I'm not an expert in this.
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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm 99% sure that these are all authentic. A very nice lot. I see quite a few from the 18th century, but many are older. From what I can tell, there are none from the 19th or very early 20th century. So this definitely is a good accumulation of older cash.
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 Posted 12/28/2008  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
manilagalleontrade, don't bother claiming they are counterfeits if you can't even read them.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I play mah jong so numbers is not a problem and I can write my name in chinese (Ma - Horse; Tin - field) and I can distinguish different caracters. I can speak little chinese (cantonese). Kung Hei Fat Choi
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wd1040's Avatar
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3098 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2008  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow!! I see something that is from before the 1200s!

It's the 3rd down, 5th right. The font is of the old style Chinese. I need to get my album out and see who it is!

Anyways, I bet 99% of these coins are real. The fake ones might be the recent ones form the Qing Dynasty. Anyways, since the forums don't display Chinese characters well, most of yours are from these emperors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiaqing_Emperor The most you have
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daoguang_Emperor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianlong_Emperor You have a lot of these, too and rightly so because his reign was the strong point in the empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunzhi_Emperor

and finally, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uskhal_Khan of the Northern Yuan Dynasty. This is the oldest that I can recognize.

I would really love to see that obscured one and tell you what it is!!

nice lot! I bet you did something very nice for your client!
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16842 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2008  08:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most of them look genuine to my admittedly inexpert eyes, but genuine cash coins do indeed look like this. If there are any that give me concerns, I'll mention them as I go along.

To open with a word of explanation: I'm no expert in Chinese; all I've got is a Jen catalogue of Chinese cash coins, and this wonderful Chinese <-> English website. All my Chinese renderings are in the Pinyin system currently in official use on mainland China; some catalogues and references use the old Wade-Giles system, preferred on Taiwan, so if you look these coins up in Krause, you'll find the spellings different. But hopefully there won't be too much misunderstanding.

If I don't tell you it's upside down or sideways, the coin is basically shown the "right way up" in the pictures.

OK, numbering rows (R) top to bottom, positions (P) left to right, this is what I can see you've got:

Row 1 Position 1: Song Dynasty, emperor Ren Zong, reign-name Tian Sheng Yuan Bao, 1023-1032 AD. It's upside down.

R1 P2: Qing Dynasty, the Dao Guang emperor, 1821-1851 AD, Suzhou mint (Jiangsu province). Rotate 90 degrees anticlockwise.

R1 P3: Qing Dynasty, the Qian Long emperor, 1735-1796 AD, I can't read the mintmark clearly. It's upside down. You'll find that coins of this emperor are among the most common coins ever made, anywhere; there are quite a few of this emperor in these pics.

R1 P4: Song Dynasty, emperor Hui Zong, "reign-name" Sheng Song yuan bao, 1101-1102 AD, "running script" variety. The large size and wide rims make me think this may be a slightly scarcer 2 cash variety (Jen #272). Rotate 90 degrees clockwise.

R1 P5: Same as R1P2, but Hangzhou mint, Zhejiang province.

R1 P6: Same as R1P3, but Board of Revenue mint, Beijing.

R2 P1: Sorry, this one's too far gone for me to read. It's probably Song Dynasty.

R2 P2: Also too far gone, but the script is clearly the "running" style favoured on some coin types during the Song Dynasty. It's a reign-name starting with "yuan"; if I had to guess, I'd go with Yuan Feng Tong Bao of Emperor Shen Zong (1078-1086 AD).

R2 P3: Sorry, I can't even tell which way is up.

R2 P4: Qing Dynasty, the Jia Qing emperor, 1796-1821 AD, Yunnan Province mint. The style of this one looks "strange" to my eyes; it might be one of those fakes MGT was talking about, but it could simply be be a hastily made cast coin, from way out on the fringes of the Empire.

R2 P5: Same as R1P3, but the mintmark is scrambled; I can't read anything there.

R2 P6: Same as R1P3 again; I think it might be Yunnan mint again.

R3 P1: Another R1P3, this time it's Board of Works mint, Beijing.

R3 P2: Another R3P1, another Yunnan mint.

R3 P3: Same emperor as R1P2; looks like Yunnan mint again, but this time there's something really wrong with the reverse casting; I think it's more than simple corrosion. Such "mint errors" are too common to add much value to Chinese cash coins.

R3 P4: Another R1P3, and I think it's Yunnan mint again. The predominance of Yunnan coins might indicate this area is a key source for this batch of coins.

R3 P5: Song Dynasty, same emperor as the one mentioned at R2P2, but this time it's his Xi Ning reign-name (1068-1078 AD). This is the "seal script" variety.

R3 P6: Same emperor as R2P4, but the mintmark seems to be worn away.

R4 P1: much the same statement as for R3P6.

R4 P2: Another R1P3, but the reverse is too corroded to read clearly.

R4 P3: Same emperor as R1P1, but this time it's from the reign-name Zhi He Yuan Bao (1054-1056 AD).

R4 P4: Same emperor as R1P2, Board of Works mint, Beijing (same mint as R3P1).

R4 P5: Same emperor as R2P4, but I can't see the mint. I'm a bit worried about the size and quality of this one.

R4 P6: Qing Dynasty, the Guang Xu emperor, 1875-1908 AD. I believe this is a machine-struck cash coin of the Guangdong Province mint.

That's half of them, but it's nearly midnight local time; I'm off to bed.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Edited by Sap
12/29/2008 08:46 am
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2008  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wow Sap I'm impressed. patience is the name of the game. I could say you're an expert. I have a big wooden cigarbox full of mixed genuine and fake cash coins and never had the time and effort to check it out. Most of it were just given to me by my chinese numismatic friends, a 10 years accumulation while I was living in Hong Kong and I don't even know where to start.
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Archraz's Avatar
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3499 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2008  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
manilagalleontrade- Nice! Post pics in a thread and we'll see what we can do.

Sap- awesome eye! You definitely are rather good at analyzing this often confusing type of coin.
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