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1797 Mexican Mint 8 Reales - Authentic? Restrike?

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newguy22's Avatar
United States
277 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2021  4:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add newguy22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
What are your guys's opinions on this 8 reales piece? Authentic? Are there any indications that this could be a restrike from the late 19th century?

1797-Mexican-Mint-8-Reales---Authentic?-Restrike?
1797-Mexican-Mint-8-Reales---Authentic?-Restrike?
1797-Mexican-Mint-8-Reales---Authentic?-Restrike?
1797-Mexican-Mint-8-Reales---Authentic?-Restrike?
1797-Mexican-Mint-8-Reales---Authentic?-Restrike?
1797-Mexican-Mint-8-Reales---Authentic?-Restrike?
1797-Mexican-Mint-8-Reales---Authentic?-Restrike?
1797-Mexican-Mint-8-Reales---Authentic?-Restrike?
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MisterT's Avatar
United States
2004 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2021  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I too am curious to see what others have to say because I am no expert by any means. The chopmarks do lend some credibility but they can be faked as well. I am told that the British manufactured a lot of fakes during this period to destabilize the currency during their war with Spain.
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swamperbob's Avatar
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5362 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2021  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on what I see here I think you have a silver coin made for China outside of Mexico. Two main reasons are the Swastika as it appears is NOT a Chinese chop shape. A reversed swastika is a symbol of good luck and there is a Chinese character that resembles a swastika without the 4th crossbar. I have seen this chop on several that I have attributed to New England.

The edge design is also rather suspicious.

In this grade, the made for China copies are so prevalent that they sell as if they were genuine normally.
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newguy22's Avatar
United States
277 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2021  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add newguy22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Swamperbob for your feedback. I really appreciate you commenting on my post. I am considering making a purchase of your book, as it seems worth the money for any person looking into collecting these coins.

Would you mind answering a couple questions for me? I appreciate your answers greatly and would love to further study the history behind these coins. It really is not a joke when they people say that anything having to do with China can be fake.

1. If this coin was produced in New England, who were the people behind its production?

2. Can it be assumed that some of the chopmarks are fake? Were they stamped onto the coin after minting and then sent over to China? I'm guessing that if this coin did make it to China, it circulated and was further stamped by local merchants in its lifetime.

3. The chopmark missing the 4th bar, are you talking about the chopmark under the bust's check next to where the underchin and neck lines intersect? "#21147;" This character?

4. What aspect of the edge is off putting to you?
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MisterT's Avatar
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2004 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2021  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting observations and thanks for sharing. I do know that the reversed swastika was originally a good luck symbol attributed to the Native American Indian tribes. And we know that during the colonial period, this was a common coin for commerce between Asia and the New World. So perhaps the coin was originally minted in Mexico City, made its way to the colonies where it received the swastika chopmarks, traded in the orient where it picked up Asian chopmarks and made it back to the colonies again?
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United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2021  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It really is not a joke when they people say that anything having to do with China can be fake.

To be fair, in the case of what Bob is referring to with the illicit "bullion restrikes"... it was the West trying to put one over on them, as opposed to the other way around which we've come to expect in the last 20 years.

If you're really interested beyond the long story short version Bob gave here, save him some typing and do a search of the many, MANY detailed explanatory posts Bob has written over the years regarding these. There is a search function on this site, but I find a well-targeted search using Google directly can be more useful.
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MisterT's Avatar
United States
2004 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2021  03:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just finished looking at a large variety of chopmarks from that period. Many on this coin are identifiable from what I have seen but the swastika really has me. This one is not reversed like others I have seen and a native american symbol would be reversed as well. I don't know what to think.
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